Isn't free college already a thing?

not a free market wrote:

Nobody decides what they are going to pay their doctor.

It's a complicated market, but I think mostly a free one.

Some people do pay cash for their doctor. You can call various doctors and ask them what their cash pricing is.

However, it is much more common to use insurance. I would argue with the increase in deductibles, it's still worth your time to shop around for a doctor, because if you're a relatively healthy person, you're still going to be paying cash for the majority of your doctor visits.

It is your responsibility to ask about pricing though. They don't just post it on the door.

However, let's take the case of insurance, because that seems to be what you're referring to when you say nobody decides what they are going to pay their doctor.

There is a market between insurance companies and doctors, where prices are negotiated. There is a market between insurance companies and employers and individuals where prices for insurance and benefits covered are negotiated. And there is is a market between employers and employees where benefits and costs are negotiated. So, in a very roundabout way, everyone does choose what they are going to pay their doctor.

zxcvvcxz wrote:

Also, to respond to the ludicrous premise of the OP, the heavily tuition-based funding model of colleges and universities obviously does not allow for everyone to go for free. Think about it.

This guy gets it.

wowza wrote:

smart enough to earn a scholarship, not smart enough to understand the word 'most'

scary isn't it?

I have no ability to negotiate with my employer what I am going to pay for health insurance. I have no ability to be involved when prices are negotiated between the insurers (my employer is self-insured like most large employers are, so the insurer is really a processor). When I have asked (and I have asked multiple times) what a doctor is going to charge, I have been told that they have no ability to tell me that.

So, no, I don't choose what I am going to pay my doctor. I know what my premiums cost, I know what my deductible and out-of-pocket maximum is. What the doctor gets paid takes place entirely without any involvement from me and I have no idea what that is going to be until the eob comes.

So, its a nice theory, but it doesn't describe how things work in the real world. That doesn't even begin to talk about emergency care, where you are without ability to ask for price or negotiate.

not a free market wrote:

breit leit wrote:

+1, Elvin.

Doctors don't get paid their current salaries because "they justify it with the high cost of their education" - they get paid that much because that is the amount people are willing to pay them.

Nobody decides what they are going to pay their doctor.

I just asked my physician friend. He mostly certainly knew how his compensation would work per his contract. Your mistake is understanding who "people" referred to in my post.

breit leit wrote:

I just asked my physician friend. He mostly certainly knew how his compensation would work per his contract. Your mistake is understanding who "people" referred to in my post.

Fair enough. You are right that the people who employ physicians do decide how much they will pay them, or at least what measures the pay will be based on.

StuckInDaMiddleWitChew wrote:

My family was working class. That meant that we made too much money to receive any financial aid, but we certainly did NOT have enough money for my parents to write fat tuition checks ever 6 mo+ pay for any living expenses, cars, insurance, etc..

If not for my partial track scholarship I don't know how I could have made it through. I had to run and work to pay for school, plus take out a few loans.

Nothing that is given to you is valued. If college is "free" it will lose what little value it has. Also colleges can't and should not let everyone attend, that means that a lot of people are paying for a benefit that only a few receive.

I'm just more comfortable paying my own way. Personal responsibility- it's still a thing.

You don't value the public education you got before you ever attended university? (assuming you went to public school)

Education isn't free. You have to work for it whether a tuition is paid or not. Kinda like running. You want to be faster then you put the work in to do that and you are proud. You want to be smarter or get a degree? You work hard at it and you will be proud of what you earned. Your education doesn't have to have a price tag on it to make it 'worthy'.

Well, because you work for a large employer (your choice) and choose to use their insurance (I assume you can opt-out), you do limit your ability to negotiate directly with your care provider. So, it sounds like you've already negotiated a package that you're happy with.

Right, well, now we are back to my original point. I am not deciding how much my doctor gets paid. It is layered with intermediaries that decide that.

I'm not happy with that. I am voting for universal health care. As clumsy a mechanism of accountability as government is, it is more responsive than the current system.

You will never pay more for your doctor than you will for the tax increase you will receive for universal healthcare. Even a few percent is more than I pay in premiums now for a family plan through my employer.

That was good music!!!!

do the math wrote:

You will never pay more for your doctor than you will for the tax increase you will receive for universal healthcare. Even a few percent is more than I pay in premiums now for a family plan through my employer.

so you've never heard of cancer? or the uninsured?

wowza wrote:

smart enough to earn a scholarship, not smart enough to understand the word 'most'

Also smart enough to write a five sentence post that has kept you good and worked up for two days and running.

this too wrote:

wowza wrote:

smart enough to earn a scholarship, not smart enough to understand the word 'most'

Also smart enough to write a five sentence post that has kept you good and worked up for two days and running.

Are you 12? Most normal people stop bragging about 'trolling' around the same time they stop bragging about getting a dry handy behind the Wal-Greens.

wowza wrote:

this too wrote:

Also smart enough to write a five sentence post that has kept you good and worked up for two days and running.

Are you 12? Most normal people stop bragging about 'trolling' around the same time they stop bragging about getting a dry handy behind the Wal-Greens.

Who is bragging about trolling? I’m just pointing out that you are questioning the OP’s intelligence even though you seem to be quite drawn into the discussion. If I think someone is dumb, I usually just forget about them and move on rather than spending the next two days refuting an argument by someone I think is dumb.

Pointing out that something is idiotic is not as pathetic as saying something idiotic.

already exists wrote:

I keep hearing about "free college" as part of political platforms. Can't people already go to college for free simply by attending a school that is a rung or two below the best school they get accepted to? A number of my college classmates had turned down acceptances at prestigious schools in favor of a full ride academic scholarship at our Big Ten school. Likewise, I could have gone to an even lower ranked school on academic scholarship myself if I'd elected to do so.

Seems like free college is already available to most people, but very few take advantage of it.

Would be cool if college was free so I can go to school to become a doctor. Kind of sucks that it isn't.

My school loans that I took out in 1998 for Penn State of what I think was 9 or 10 grand somehow have turned into me owing them 41,000 today.

I mean great job to the school loan program for designing it that way. I'm sure they made tons of cash off of that theory. But seems a bit excessive to me. Not trying to be rude to them either or sarcastic.

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LOL

"Penn State"