Why did 3 high schoolers go Sub 4 in the mile in 3 years, then 33 years passed before someone did it again?

Quality over Quantity. Avoid Junk Miles.

A couple generations of runners were doing 400s the second day of cross country practice because their coaches didn't know what they were doing and didn't have any easy way to find out.

There were some good coaches and there were certainly runners capable of going sub 4, but there were so many bad coaches out there that the odds of a sub four talent getting an adequate coach was like lightning striking twice.

Sub 4 Hopeful wrote:

Also did Danielson, Verzbicas, Maton, or Slagowski ever go on to do anything running-wise?

Danielson was charged with murder or manslaughter in 2014. Prior to that, nothing of significance. I don’t think he managed to break 4 again at all.

Maton ran decently at Oregon. Finished in the top 30 in XC, and was part of a championship DMR in track. Not sure what happened after.

Slagowski did not do much.

Verzbicas left running for Triathlons after winning ITU World Juniors. Won a few Continental Cup and World Cup races, got permanent nerve damage from that bike accident, and effectively can’t run properly anymore.

Seyta wrote:

Sub 4 Hopeful wrote:

Also did Danielson, Verzbicas, Maton, or Slagowski ever go on to do anything running-wise?

Danielson was charged with murder or manslaughter in 2014. Prior to that, nothing of significance. I don’t think he managed to break 4 again at all.

Maton ran decently at Oregon. Finished in the top 30 in XC, and was part of a championship DMR in track. Not sure what happened after.

Slagowski did not do much.

Verzbicas left running for Triathlons after winning ITU World Juniors. Won a few Continental Cup and World Cup races, got permanent nerve damage from that bike accident, and effectively can’t run properly anymore.

That sucks for Verzbicas. Did Slagowski not run at all in College or did he just suck?

It is better to do low miles in high school and maximize one's 400m ability while racing 800m in hs. Show up at college as a sub-1:52 800m runner. Finish hs as a 4:10 to 4:12 1600m/one mile runner. You want to do what Steve Scott & Steve Holman did in high school then improve as they did in college. It is better to get fast while young as a 400m athlete.

600yd/600m man wrote:

It is better to do low miles in high school and maximize one's 400m ability while racing 800m in hs. Show up at college as a sub-1:52 800m runner. Finish hs as a 4:10 to 4:12 1600m/one mile runner. You want to do what Steve Scott & Steve Holman did in high school then improve as they did in college. It is better to get fast while young as a 400m athlete.

Ummmmm..... Ever hear of Alan “3:46” Webb or Matt “GOLD” Centrowitz??????

Centrowitz was not a hs sub-4 one miler. What about Webb?

A combination of lack of talent and late bloomers.

Sub 3:50 American milers from the 80s and 90s

High school PRs

Steve Scott 4:15

Jim Spivey 4:06

Joe Falcon 4:06 (1600)

Those guys from the 60s were serious talents.

600yd/600m man wrote:

It is better to do low miles in high school and maximize one's 400m ability while racing 800m in hs. Show up at college as a sub-1:52 800m runner. Finish hs as a 4:10 to 4:12 1600m/one mile runner. You want to do what Steve Scott & Steve Holman did in high school then improve as they did in college. It is better to get fast while young as a 400m athlete.

These are distance runnners, not sprinters. Training for the mile (and even 3k/5k) will improve their 400/800 times dramatically. Not some "low miles, develop speed" BS.

Webb and Centro ran their 800 prs same seasons as their mile/1500 prs I believe. Same for guys like Mak and Souleman. You could even extend it to Symmonds running his 400 pr right before the 2012 OGs. Better strength (ie endurance) and being able to hold speed (which all these guys have naturally) is why they pr'd at under-distance.

Why jr/sr HS kids would waste time NOT training their endurance better is mind boggling. You're only 17-25 once, why delay the endurance devo during that age period.

Star wrote:

A combination of lack of talent and late bloomers.

Sub 3:50 American milers from the 80s and 90s

High school PRs

Steve Scott 4:15

Jim Spivey 4:06

Joe Falcon 4:06 (1600)

Those guys from the 60s were serious talents.

I've heard that the 90s philosophy was low mileage, high quality, but was it the same kind of training philosophy for the 70s and 80s too?

It seems weird that there was great talent in the 60s and the 2010s, but almost none in the 70s-2000.

When three of the greatest British milers all appear around the same decade (Coe, Ovett, Cram) it's obviously down to drugs.

When three of the greatest American talents all appear within 3 years of each other, then it's alld own to training.

^ no, you were right the first time. They didn't even test pros when these guys were running. No low volume either, Ryun's insane high volume interval sessions are legend.

some people seem to think drugs in high schools started AFTER the 60's. Especially people who were there, for some reason.

These guys were famous which made every decent distance runner want to break 4. There is no other real cause. Breaking barriers is somewhat mental. 9 minutes used to sound almost impossible to high school kids. Now, 8:50 is the new number.

You stated you biases. You obviously believe in Lydiard training for 800m runners. I cannot read anything past your first paragraph. You stated training for 3K & 5K aids one's 400m performance. You are obviously over the age of 35. You are only of those who did not do T&F in high school or you were never allowed to race 400m on your hs T&F team. Someone who jogs at 9 to 11 minutes a mile while trying to Boston Qualify and also loses 75 pounds in the processes will improve one's 400 personal best from two minutes to 80 seconds. Besides individuals in your personal subset of 80 second 400m runners, you are wrong. No decent high school coach or college coach trains 400m athletes like 3000m or 5000m runners.

From what I remember Slagowski went to Penn for a year and couldn’t cut it. After Penn he moved closer to home and competed for Eastern Oregon (NAIA). Ran at Eastern for a year and haven’t seen him since. Never did anything special unfortunately

Penn State, not Penn. Never came close to high school times. He was 19 in high school.

I think Maton was 19 too.

Here's a story about Danielson, who's in jail

https://www.runnersworld.com/news/a20784190/tim-danielson-former-hs-sub-4-00-miler-is-convicted-of-murder/

Damn, Danielson

Sub 4 Hopeful wrote:

Jim Ryun was the first high schooler to go under 4, in 1965,, then Tim Danielson in 1966, then Marty Liquori in 1967. After that, no high schooler broke 4 until Alan Webb in 2001. Why is this?

Also did Danielson, Verzbicas, Maton, or Slagowski ever go on to do anything running-wise?

I got one word- Runner's World! They created the hobby jogger, "I'm running just to finish" culture.

I remember parents offering training advice to parents, "I'VE run a marathon ...

One mother went to the AD of my school with all these books telling him that the cross-country team (the one her daughter sucked on) did too much running and not enough frisbee and soccer.