Don't run at 1% incline on the treadmill!

Isaac Newton for the win!

2 mile warm up

One minute at 4% incline/ one minute level X 30

Little over 9 miles

Let's try a different approach and see if this makes sense. I will just layout things quickly before heading to bed, then I will think about and see what others say.

It is a very to get effective adjustments to "Basic" for sprint times run with head or tailwinds. The two best known (within track and field) at the Big Gold Book published be Track and Field News, and the calculations by JRM (Jonas R. Mureika,

http://jmureika.lmu.build/track/

) which agree virtually completely.

A 4mps/8.8mph tailwind is worth 0.176 (0.179 JRM) seconds over 100m for someone running about 10mps, which is 0.176% (a headwind is worse at -0.26% (-0.27% JRM)). But 10mps is 22 mph, and since wind effects are quadratic at 10mph/4.5pms, the effect, squared would be cut by 80% to just 0.035%. The headwind calculations are probably more relevant, so 0.053%.

So, first, is there something wrong about this so far. Second, what gradient matches this effect. Vague memory is that the treadmills I have seen increase the METS calculation by 1-2% when the treadmill is increased from flat/0% to +1%. So how do these figures correspond with the Newtons calculation you have done (my physics is 50 years old...).

Regarding gait, this blogger attempts to explain what's being said in the thread:

http://www.codybeals.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Runner-treadmill-free-body-diagram.png

http://www.codybeals.com/2014/02/running-numbers-how-much-easier-are/

I've run thousands of miles on the treadmill the last few years. Probably over 40% of my total mileage for each year.

You are just wasting your time trying to do these sorts of calculations. I currently run on a few different treadmills and there are noticeable differences that can be found on each even at the same fitness center. The one I ran on tonight is against a wall and gets very little air circulation. It is even a little harder at a certain pace than others at a different fitness center. Based on effort and heartrate, this particular treadmill is 10 to 15 seconds "harder" especially as the run gets longer. Unless you run on just one every time, there is no way to know how well they are calibrated until you run on it a few times and by feel or heartrate know how it compares to running outside.

The most accurate calculator I have found is this one.

https://42.195km.net/e/treadsim/

If you punch in the difference of running at 6 minute pace, it tells me you are losing 15 seconds per 1% incline. Do you really think wind resistance is costing a runner 15 seconds per mile? Some idiots even throw out the "1-2%" is close enough. That 2% is costing you 30 seconds per mile!!! Would any of you idiots run your 400s 7 seconds faster than your workout called for? That's ridiculous. If you do think you have a properly calibrated treadmill and feel the need to supposedly be running at a certain effort at a certain speed, then raising the incline .5% will be sufficient unless you can cruise your 10 miler at 4:30 pace and then 1% might be a little better.(as long as you have a huge fan cooling you off)

As a note, I have used that calculator to predict the mens winning time at world xc last year (the really hilly course) within 2 seconds. A few years ago I punched in the times from the ekiden which are run on some hilly courses and the numbers were very accurate. I use it all the time when I am running hilly races and it is very helpful knowing how fast or slow certain miles of the race should be.

Normally I don't use any incline because it irritates my achilles. Also the treadmill records are set using zero per cent incline. So there is no need whatsoever to practise with an incline. Hill sprints and stuff like that are a different case.

Running at an incline better simulates air resistance because outside you would lean forward to counteract air resistance. So running on the treadmill at a slight incline is actually closer to the same gait as running outside.

treadmill grandmaster, heat stroke is dangerous. Not a way to simulate running up a hill.

from my own experience running at 2% incline for 60 mins every day for a month. when i transitioned back outside, i noticed:

longer ground contact

shorter stride length

weakened quads

easy efforts perceived as easier

hills required less breathing

longer time to general fatigue

treadmill grandmaster wrote:

If you punch in the difference of running at 6 minute pace, it tells me you are losing 15 seconds per 1% incline. Do you really think wind resistance is costing a runner 15 seconds per mile?

Yes. Absolutely. At speeds over 10 mph, you're definitely getting more than 10 seconds per mile. Anyone who has run hard on a treadmill knows this. Anyone who can do simple math knows it. But it's actually even worse than this because treadmills slow down while your foot is planted and speed up when you're in the air. So even if the belt is moving 10 mph, it's effectively moving slightly slower for you. This effect is smaller with better treadmills.

In my experience, when people are skeptical about the wind resistance effect of treadmill running, the mistake they make is equating the treadmill with drafting off of another runner. But that's not the correct comparison. Another runner helps to REDUCE air resistance, but does not eliminate it. The better way to think about it is as though you have a tailwind going the same speed as you. Have you ever done a hard tempo with a 10 mph tailwind the whole way? You fly.

Imo, running on the treadmill is harder than running outside, regardless of incline. I've done tempos on the treadmill and it been significantly harder than a faster pace being run outside.

Lmfao. All you're doing on the treadmill is having your feet pulled backwards by the belt. I suppose if you were to tie resistance bands on your legs, it would be identical to running outside, but at that point, just run outside.

Need vid of someone running on a treadmill with resistance bands attached to their legs. Please somebody contact Nick Symmonds.

Good post! Cody is a talented writer and engineer by training... but he also happens to be a pro triathlete who has run 2:42 marathon as part of an Ironman. Trains almost entirely indoors and mainly treadmill.

fkonfkoff wrote:

No such thing as going by feel on the treadmill. That’s the problem.

Sure there is, but the reaction comes with a little bit of delay. So first you get the feeling, and then push some buttons to match that feeling.

Joking aside, I know what you mean. Treadmill is the last option for me when the weather sucks too much. It's better than doing nothing.