So a little while ago I've made a thread about if it was possible to find a runner who could be in sub 11 100m and sub 2:30 min on Marathon shape basically at the same time.
Answers were mostly is that it might be possible, but it would require some kind of genetic freak etc. and incentives aren't there also.
So I'm wondering on a quite shorter distance, but still aerobically intensive : the 5k.
Is it possible to be in sub 11 sec 100m and sub 16 min on 5k shape at the same time ?
What a bunch of cr@p. Not worthy of a substantive response.
Why don’t you offer your thoughts on the matter? Because this is pure clickbait cr@p, that’s why.
Coe should be able to do it in his prime.
I would think someone like Marcin Lewandowski should be able to do both, and sub 2:30 marathon as well.
He has great speed, and also does 100 mile weeks during preparation season
Donavan Brazier could easily do this. Probably a decent number of other 800/1500 runners as well.
i did 16:30 during xc season followed by 11.9 in spring off of 400/800 training.
feel like a pro mid distance runner should be able to do it fairly easily.
Keyboard quarterback wrote:
Donavan Brazier could easily do this. Probably a decent number of other 800/1500 runners as well.
I think 400/800 runners are going to be more likely than 800/1500 runners, but that's just opinion.
10.99 is no joke for a non-sprinter and it's a much better performance than 15:59.99. Using old IAAF points (because I made a program that does automatic IAAF Points calculations/comparisons from the 2015 data), <11.00 is 889 points and <16min is 641 points.
641 is the same as:
11.90 24.26 53.94 2:05.10 4:19.44 9:19.55
889 is the same as:
10.99 22.27 49.49 1:54.99 3:57.13 8:29.72
There is NO way a middle-distance runner can run 10.99 FAT. There is a massive difference between FAT and flying, which is the way most distance runners record their 100m times.
Here you see Mo Farah, one of the greatest middle-distance runners of all time (3:28 1500m, European record) run a 100m race in competition. His time? 12.91.
He has recorded 100m fly times close to 11 flat/11 low, so the difference between fly and FAT is almost 2 seconds. This is in line with what Nick Willis, another insane miler/middle-distance runner said, his PR is like 11.1 but in a FAT he can't break 12.5.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJMIwlQB-28
Even Bolt is extremely slow over the first 10m out of the blocks. That's jogging pace that any LR user could run after being "on speed" that Bolt has in the first 10m out of the blocks, and he was one of the best acceleration guys in the world.
Rudisha, Lewandowski, etc. all can easily run a sub 16 5k. But I doubt they can do 10.99 FAT, unless proven in a race. Just way too many slow-twitch muscles, even for Rudisha who is a 400/800 guy.
People on LR are distance runners who got no clue what an insane effort a 10.99 FAT is. The main problem is that runners with a lot of slow-twitch muscles, and even speedy mid-d runners like Rudisha (and I know he got 45.5 400m speed) accelerate even more slowly than sprinters out of the blocks, in fact their acceleration is rather abysmal. Rudisha, Murphy, Brazier's etc problem is NOT their speed, it's getting to it out of the blocks. Their top-end speed is fantastic and they can run extremely fast in a flying 100, but blocks have a much larger impact than people here believe.
the combination of speed and endurance in a young athlete is rare. The closest that I have seen at the high school level is a student who ran around 11.6 for 100m and could also run 3k in under 10 minutes both with no training. I recommended this 10th grader to give cycling a try and years later he won the Tour De France Green Jersey in 2017. I guess I got lucky on that one.....
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
There is NO way a middle-distance runner can run 10.99 FAT. There is a massive difference between FAT and flying, which is the way most distance runners record their 100m times.
Here you see Mo Farah, one of the greatest middle-distance runners of all time (3:28 1500m, European record) run a 100m race in competition. His time? 12.91.
He has recorded 100m fly times close to 11 flat/11 low, so the difference between fly and FAT is almost 2 seconds. This is in line with what Nick Willis, another insane miler/middle-distance runner said, his PR is like 11.1 but in a FAT he can't break 12.5.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJMIwlQB-28Even Bolt is extremely slow over the first 10m out of the blocks. That's jogging pace that any LR user could run after being "on speed" that Bolt has in the first 10m out of the blocks, and he was one of the best acceleration guys in the world.
Rudisha, Lewandowski, etc. all can easily run a sub 16 5k. But I doubt they can do 10.99 FAT, unless proven in a race. Just way too many slow-twitch muscles, even for Rudisha who is a 400/800 guy.
People on LR are distance runners who got no clue what an insane effort a 10.99 FAT is. The main problem is that runners with a lot of slow-twitch muscles, and even speedy mid-d runners like Rudisha (and I know he got 45.5 400m speed) accelerate even more slowly than sprinters out of the blocks, in fact their acceleration is rather abysmal. Rudisha, Murphy, Brazier's etc problem is NOT their speed, it's getting to it out of the blocks. Their top-end speed is fantastic and they can run extremely fast in a flying 100, but blocks have a much larger impact than people here believe.
Amel Tuka, 800m silver medalist World Champion, ran a 100m race in 10.93 back in 2018.
So I think yes, I am pretty sure he can also run a sub 16 min 5k right now.
https://worldathletics.org/athletes/bosnia-herzegovina/amel-tuka-273168LateRunnerPhil wrote:
There is NO way a middle-distance runner can run 10.99 FAT. There is a massive difference between FAT and flying, which is the way most distance runners record their 100m times.
Here you see Mo Farah, one of the greatest middle-distance runners of all time (3:28 1500m, European record) run a 100m race in competition. His time? 12.91.
He has recorded 100m fly times close to 11 flat/11 low, so the difference between fly and FAT is almost 2 seconds. This is in line with what Nick Willis, another insane miler/middle-distance runner said, his PR is like 11.1 but in a FAT he can't break 12.5.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJMIwlQB-28Even Bolt is extremely slow over the first 10m out of the blocks. That's jogging pace that any LR user could run after being "on speed" that Bolt has in the first 10m out of the blocks, and he was one of the best acceleration guys in the world.
Rudisha, Lewandowski, etc. all can easily run a sub 16 5k. But I doubt they can do 10.99 FAT, unless proven in a race. Just way too many slow-twitch muscles, even for Rudisha who is a 400/800 guy.
People on LR are distance runners who got no clue what an insane effort a 10.99 FAT is. The main problem is that runners with a lot of slow-twitch muscles, and even speedy mid-d runners like Rudisha (and I know he got 45.5 400m speed) accelerate even more slowly than sprinters out of the blocks, in fact their acceleration is rather abysmal. Rudisha, Murphy, Brazier's etc problem is NOT their speed, it's getting to it out of the blocks. Their top-end speed is fantastic and they can run extremely fast in a flying 100, but blocks have a much larger impact than people here believe.
But there's a massive difference between 400/800 and 800/1500 guys.
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
There is NO way a middle-distance runner can run 10.99 FAT. There is a massive difference between FAT and flying, which is the way most distance runners record their 100m times.
Here you see Mo Farah, one of the greatest middle-distance runners of all time (3:28 1500m, European record) run a 100m race in competition. His time? 12.91.
He has recorded 100m fly times close to 11 flat/11 low, so the difference between fly and FAT is almost 2 seconds. This is in line with what Nick Willis, another insane miler/middle-distance runner said, his PR is like 11.1 but in a FAT he can't break 12.5.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJMIwlQB-28Even Bolt is extremely slow over the first 10m out of the blocks. That's jogging pace that any LR user could run after being "on speed" that Bolt has in the first 10m out of the blocks, and he was one of the best acceleration guys in the world.
Rudisha, Lewandowski, etc. all can easily run a sub 16 5k. But I doubt they can do 10.99 FAT, unless proven in a race. Just way too many slow-twitch muscles, even for Rudisha who is a 400/800 guy.
People on LR are distance runners who got no clue what an insane effort a 10.99 FAT is. The main problem is that runners with a lot of slow-twitch muscles, and even speedy mid-d runners like Rudisha (and I know he got 45.5 400m speed) accelerate even more slowly than sprinters out of the blocks, in fact their acceleration is rather abysmal. Rudisha, Murphy, Brazier's etc problem is NOT their speed, it's getting to it out of the blocks. Their top-end speed is fantastic and they can run extremely fast in a flying 100, but blocks have a much larger impact than people here believe.
It is interest that you used M Farah as your example. M Farah has an elite 1500m personal best but M Farah has always known he never had the raw speed to race 1500m versus elite 1500m runners in important meets. M Farah knew he would have had trouble racing elite 1500m runners in World Championships &/or Olympics. If Farah passed 1200m in W.C. &/or Olympics heats &/or finals in 2:57 to 3:03 range, which is normal, M Farah would have looked very ordinary over the final 300m. Elite 1500m runners can race final final 300m, around 38 seconds or even a bit faster. That would be a bit out of M Farah's league. A lot of the difficulty middle distance runners would have with 100m, obviously is the first 30m. I know you think those who sprint first 30m well is simply due to winning genetic lottery. There are only so many hours in a week. Training 100m sprinters is so different than training middle distance runners. Sprinters are supposed to be fresh and rested like Thoroughbred race horses. Thoroughbred horses aren't trained to exhaustion, middle distance runners are trained to their physical limits.
dikicc wrote:
Amel Tuka, 800m silver medalist World Champion, ran a 100m race in 10.93 back in 2018.
So I think yes, I am pretty sure he can also run a sub 16 min 5k right now.
https://worldathletics.org/athletes/bosnia-herzegovina/amel-tuka-273168
Not legal, +3.0 m/s wind that's massive in sprinting. His wind-corrected time is 11.09, so yea he would be around 11 flat with good, legal wind. Same probably goes for Rudisha, Ksczcot and Coe. Lewandowski, despite being "THE KICKER" in the 1500/Mile, would already be too slow. He stated multiple times himself he can't hang with Ksczcot on sprints and 100-400m reps, and that Kszcszot is a 400/800 guy while he is just a 800/1500 guy.
All these guys can of course easily run a sub 16 5k.
600yd/600m man wrote:
It is interest that you used M Farah as your example. M Farah has an elite 1500m personal best but M Farah has always known he never had the raw speed to race 1500m versus elite 1500m runners in important meets. M Farah knew he would have had trouble racing elite 1500m runners in World Championships &/or Olympics. If Farah passed 1200m in W.C. &/or Olympics heats &/or finals in 2:57 to 3:03 range, which is normal, M Farah would have looked very ordinary over the final 300m. Elite 1500m runners can race final final 300m, around 38 seconds or even a bit faster. That would be a bit out of M Farah's league. A lot of the difficulty middle distance runners would have with 100m, obviously is the first 30m. I know you think those who sprint first 30m well is simply due to winning genetic lottery. There are only so many hours in a week. Training 100m sprinters is so different than training middle distance runners. Sprinters are supposed to be fresh and rested like Thoroughbred race horses. Thoroughbred horses aren't trained to exhaustion, middle distance runners are trained to their physical limits.
The only reason I used Farah is because he is one of the only ones who actually got into a 100m race out of the blocks, and showed how weak he is under that conditions. I agree he is not even an 800/1500 guy, but 1500/5k/10k.
You are right sprinters have a lot of explosive, fast-twitch fibers which are decided on birth. I don't like the comparison with thouroughbred horses - these would be 1500/milers, extremely high VO2MAX and great speed over moderately long distances. A real sprinter is like a cheetah or greyhound - they are gased after a few 100m, but got extreme acceleration and top speed. A cheetah rests the whole day after he hunted for like 10s to relax his muscles, and in another thread greyhound owners reported similar stories.
Starno wrote:
So a little while ago I've made a thread about if it was possible to find a runner who could be in sub 11 100m and sub 2:30 min on Marathon shape basically at the same time.
Answers were mostly is that it might be possible, but it would require some kind of genetic freak etc. and incentives aren't there also.
So I'm wondering on a quite shorter distance, but still aerobically intensive : the 5k.
Is it possible to be in sub 11 sec 100m and sub 16 min on 5k shape at the same time ?
Remember when you made an @$$ out of yourself by claiming that English was the official language of the US.
Remember that?
Almost all sub 1:47 or 3:35ish runners will run sub 11 with a flying start. I'd think that some of the faster ones would manage it also out of the blocks. 2 secs. is way too much difference, it might be that much but could also be only about one second or less.
I ran ca. 12,9 or even 12,7 with 15-15 out of the blocks and I was slow (ca. 59 400 and 2:12-15 800 at that time).
Jo72 wrote:
Almost all sub 1:47 or 3:35ish runners will run sub 11 with a flying start. I'd think that some of the faster ones would manage it also out of the blocks. 2 secs. is way too much difference, it might be that much but could also be only about one second or less.
I ran ca. 12,9 or even 12,7 with 15-15 out of the blocks and I was slow (ca. 59 400 and 2:12-15 800 at that time).
Not true. Nick Willis, one of the speediest milers that ever graced the world, was celebrating a 11.11 100m flying PR and never broke it. His post back on Instagram:
"Altitude benefits more than just your endurance. I just shocked myself with a rolling start 100m PB - 11.11s!"
FAT times are nothing close to 100m fly times that distance runners often start in full speed (which is smart, training starts out of the blocks does ZERO for their events). It's not just the reaction time + super slow first 20-30m that add to the time, but also the required power of a FAT start that will cost the distance runner some speed during the latter half of the 100m (their legs fatigue more than a sprinter's after a block start due to lower % of fast-twitch fibers).
I would say Centro, Willis, Cheriyot, are all in the 11.00-11.20 range with full speed start. Lewandowski is like 10.60-10.90, and Ingebrigtsen 11.20-11.30. Each runner got different strengths.
SPEAKINGRISH! wrote:
Starno wrote:
So a little while ago I've made a thread about if it was possible to find a runner who could be in sub 11 100m and sub 2:30 min on Marathon shape basically at the same time.
Answers were mostly is that it might be possible, but it would require some kind of genetic freak etc. and incentives aren't there also.
So I'm wondering on a quite shorter distance, but still aerobically intensive : the 5k.
Is it possible to be in sub 11 sec 100m and sub 16 min on 5k shape at the same time ?
English is the official language of the US by common sense standards. You're the a** if you don't think it is the case.
Go find a job in Wall Street speaking German and not English.
Remember when you made an @$$ out of yourself by claiming that English was the official language of the US.
Remember that?
Starno wrote:
Go find a job in Wall Street speaking German and not English.
Found one:
https://www.thehorizongroup.com/job/corporate-relationship-manager-bilingual-german/?utm_campaign=google_jobs_apply&utm_source=google_jobs_apply&utm_medium=organicRemember when you made an @$$ out of yourself by thinking that you couldn't get a job on Wall Street if you spoke German?
Devin Dixon ran a 43.xx split in a 4x4, obviously that's with a running start but he still averaged sub-11 for four 100s in a row. If you think he couldn't break 11 in an FAT 100 you're an even bigger moran than you seem