unshidshod wrote:
Sesamoiditis wrote:
Pole vault, like cycling, baseball, tennis, etc. has an inherent technological component. Running does not. Running races are supposed to be about who is the fastest.
So you run barefoot ?
And NAKED!!!
Why is no one asking what materials Mondo's pole was made out of?
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And NAKED!!! -
Sesamoiditis wrote:
unshidshod wrote:
Sesamoiditis wrote:
Pole vault, like cycling, baseball, tennis, etc. has an inherent technological component. Running does not. Running races are supposed to be about who is the fastest.
So you run barefoot ?
And NAKED!!!
now we need some pics -
dfergus wrote:
There are carbon fiber javelins now, that athletes claim perform differently and better. At an NCAA championship last May, a generous athlete let the other competitors use his Jav.
Carbon fiber javs have the biggest impact on throwers with lesser techniques. When a mistake is made in alignment, the javelin bows and oscillates, losing energy. to non-propulsive movement The carbon fiber javs do a better job of dissipating/damping the vibration so less energy is lost.
When the first carbon javs were used to break records, those records were disallowed due to verbiage in the IAAF rules at the time. Eventually rules were changed to allow for the use of the new material in the construction of the implements.
All of that being said, the world record in the men's jav was sent with an aluminium implement (an OTE if I remember correctly).
Hurdles400m wrote:
Javelin is the only event where technology has made more difference in the negative direction than any other when you compare to original implements.
How's that? The original implements were wooden sticks that flew like...well....wooden sticks. As technology, aerodynamics, and material science were applied they flew further....so far in fact that they exceeded the capacity of many stadiums. The change to the COM of javelins in the mid to late 80's was a validation of the successful modernization of the implements design. (in conjunction with the athletes competing at the time...) They simply were too good. Not sure where the negative direction is that you are referring to on this matter? -
What other changes have their been to pole vault technology over time?
Runway
Shoes
Chalk
Grip Tape
I doubt Chalk and Grip Tape have changed much, but are modern Runways and Shoes providing a technical advantage compared to Bubka's era? -
the real question... WAS HE WEARING VAPOURFLYS???
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wrong but right wrote:
Any "mechanical doping" possibility there, brojos???
Nobody really cares about pole vaulting so that is probably why. -
Bad Wigins wrote:
but are you denying that it WOULD be possible to hide a motorized device in the pole that made it snap back with more power?
I think you have a really poor understanding as to how any of this works... -
Pole Vault Technology wrote:
What other changes have their been to pole vault technology over time?
Runway
Shoes
Chalk
Grip Tape
I doubt Chalk and Grip Tape have changed much, but are modern Runways and Shoes providing a technical advantage compared to Bubka's era?
Honestly, no. Runways have not changed that much since Bubka's era.
Shoes... obviously new shoe technologies stand to have an impact on PV as well, but so far I am not aware of them being used in the pole vault. I'm sure the time is coming. Newest technology aside, pole vault spikes today are only marginally better than Bubka's era.
Chalk is the same as always, and not every vaulter uses chalk, some of them use sticky spray
Grip tape is the same as always. There have been some experiments with different types of tape, but the elites seem to be using the same stuff as always.
The other thing to keep in mind is that while a few things got marginally better, volzing (steadying the bar with your hand) was banned, the pegs the crossbar rests on were shortened, the ends of the crossbar rounded except for one flat side, the time limit per attempt reduced, and doping control became a lot stricter. -
Knowing this is a troll...but I can't help myself. The short answer to the original question is pole vault already had it's Vaporflyesque technological breakthrough about 55 years ago, the history of which is written in the world record progression:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bb/World_record_progression_pole_vault_men.png
The longer answer is that virtually all modern pole vault poles follow a design and manufacturing process developed by an engineer named Herb Jenks who got his start working for Browning making fiberglass fishing rods. No one has really improved on Herb Jenks' design and no material has come along that has proven better than the S-glass fiberglass these poles have been made out of for decades now. I believe the UCS Spirit pole was named in honor of Herb Jenks. UCS Spirit is the same pole that all the pole vault records for the last 25 years (or so) have been set on, including Mondo's 6.17 jump last week.
As far as other technological advances, pole vault has certainly benefited from advances in shoe and runway technology, runway speed being the biggest factor driving vault height (all else being equal of course). I've written on here before about the advantages stiff full length spike plates have given sprinters over the last 20 years or so, there are multiple studies that have shown modern sprint spikes give anywhere from a 1-4% improvement in performance, which is enough to account for the majority of sprint performance improvements over the last 30 years or so, dating back to when spike plates only covered the first half of the shoe and sprinters didn't receive any additional spring from the shoes themselves. In terms of shoe technology Vaporflies are just catching up. Most spike plates are made out of Pebax which is a minor material breakthrough in and of itself. Pebax is known for having great energy return and being very lightweight, it's become nearly ubiquitous in the sporting good industry so IMO it's use in track shoes has flown somewhat under the radar:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyether_block_amide -
CO Coach wrote:The short answer to the original question is pole vault already had it's Vaporflyesque technological breakthrough about 55 years ago,
Yes, so much of this!
There are some key differences between the breakthrough in pole technology and shoe technology...
Fiberglass poles took years to be refined to the point that vaulters started to want to use them. They existed for a good 15 or so years before vaulters started breaking world records with them.
Once they got better at making poles that would bend, but not break, vaulters had to figure out a different technique in order to get maximum benefit from them.
It was probably a good two decades of continuing to refine both the poles and the technique, but probably by the late 80s, the poles and techniques at the top level of the sport were pretty similar to what we see today.
To put it in a shoe analogy... imagine a new shoe came out that made you run a lot faster... but only if you ran with really high knees. Yeah, it would feel weird at first. Some athletes would refuse to change how they run. But ultimately, people like to win, and if that means changing your running technique to something that feels silly, people would eventually do it.
The latest breakthroughs in shoe technology happened on a much much faster timeline.
It will be interesting to see what kind of impact we do ultimately see from changes to shoes in the pole vault.
I think it is like when you have local coastal flooding combined with a high tide... totally unrelated to shoes, we have this incredible crop of incredibly talented young male vaulters who are jumping really well right now. Add a new shoe technology that makes them all a tad faster... I think we could see a lot more people join the 6 meter club in the next five-ten years. -
Mondo is a pole vaulter who depends on runway speed - I do wonder what shoes we was wearing.
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I think shot put may be the only track & field event where implement/equipment technology has not directly improved performance.
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polevaultpower wrote:
Bad Wigins wrote:
but are you denying that it WOULD be possible to hide a motorized device in the pole that made it snap back with more power?
I think you have a really poor understanding as to how any of this works...
Not hearing a denial. How's your physics?
One possible way would be a "chinese finger prison" type of thing, a sort of coiled piece of metal that could be extended at the press of a secret button. No motor required, just a hollow space inside the pole and a trigger mechanism. -
Don't know much about pole vaulting do you.
Anyone can use any of the poles out there, although almost no one can use the poles Mondo uses because they do not have the same combination of runway speed, strength, experience and flexibility at take off etc. -
And Bad Wigins, you just dropped your questionable reputation even further with such utter nonsense. This might be the stupidest thing I have seen on LetsRun and there has been a lot of idiocy - well, not the worst but vying for a position well in to the worst group.
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Bad Wigins wrote:
I think you have a really poor understanding as to how any of this works...
Not hearing a denial. How's your physics?
One possible way would be a "chinese finger prison" type of thing, a sort of coiled piece of metal that could be extended at the press of a secret button. No motor required, just a hollow space inside the pole and a trigger mechanism.[/quote]
Physics of the device itself aside, the weight would negatively impact the vaulter on the run, the device would probably make the pole more prone to breakage, and having something that makes the pole unbend faster is not a positive thing. -
Don't know much about pole vaulting do you wrote:
Don't know much about pole vaulting do you.
Anyone can use any of the poles out there, although almost no one can use the poles Mondo uses because they do not have the same combination of runway speed, strength, experience and flexibility at take off etc.
Yup... at the Pole Vault Summit two years ago, Mondo went through all of his poles and needed something bigger. He borrowed Cole Walsh's poles (they use the same brand) and jumped a new personal best. -
notrump wrote:
Mondo is a pole vaulter who depends on runway speed - I do wonder what shoes we was wearing.
Mondo is sponsored by Puma and they made him his own spike.
It looks like a normal jump spike to me. Some vaulters like more heel padding and some like less, his looks to be on the thinner side. It is definitely not some weirdly built up shoe. -
Bump, this is turning into an absolute farse
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wrong but right wrote:
Why is no one asking what materials Mondo's pole was made out of?
You never see a fat dentist. Why not? This is suspicious.
Mondo's pole is clearly an AlphaPole™. The swedes discovered 19 chemical elements. They are materials science nerds. This competitive advantage is ephemeral though, because the chinese are looking to make skiing poles of the same material for the Beijing 2022 Winter Olympics. By then it will be everywhere and a true patriot like Sam Kendricks will have cleared 20'8" for a new WR.
