Veganism, difficult to succeed for most runners who run with intensity

Ever hear of Scott Jurek....

RyecorDone wrote:

As a vegan, I can easily consume 80g of protein/ day without trying. That is enough. Too much protein is just a waste, and shortens your life.

Could you illustrate which are the 80 grams of vegan protein per day?

Also, how long have you been vegan, and which setbacks have you faced because of your regime?

Vegans require numerous supplements, which could easily be provided with a very limited animal products.

Veganism is probably too radical and unsustainable for most, and the plethora of anecdotal evidence attests to that.

Flexatarians (flexetarians) appear to have a good, reasonable middle ground balance.

ScottEvil wrote:Side note: I eat oysters/clams/mussles (The term is ostrovegan, or bivalve-vegan) because they don't have brains and probably don't experience pain (or anything at all, really), and I think that's a good way to balance an otherwise plant-based diet. Oysters are good for omega-3 fatty acids and iron.

Hey Scott, of course it's possible and maybe even probable that those animals don't feel pain, but just wanted to bring in a different viewpoint. Take a look at the below article if you feel so inclined. Also just wanna say you're still causing way less suffering than most people even if it turns out the animals you eat can indeed suffer, and I deeply respect you for that. Peace brother.

New application for least intelligent post by YMMV

1. Carrots most definitely have vitamin A, along with most orange colored vegetables and even corn.

2. Vitamin b6 found in avocados, corn, pistachios, potatoes, etc

3. Vitamin b12 is not produced by animals. It synthesized by bacteria in the soil and then ingested by many of the livestock we eat. However, the amount of pesticides used in modern agriculture has killed most of these bacteria, so even the animals have to be given b12 supplements.

4. Heme-iron is not a healthy form of iron and has been linked to cardiovascular disease

5. Complete proteins are present in many plant sources. Almost all proteins were originally synthesized by plants and animals simply serve to concentrate them in the muscles (meat)

6. Your list of “harmful” substances in plants is laughable. How exactly is cellulose harmful? Or fiber (the same thing actually). PHOTOSYNTHESIZERS. HOW TERRIFYING.

7. Grass fed beef can’t feed the whole world. The reality is in order to produce enough meat for the massive demand, livestock must be fed from other sources, such as grain or corn. Meaning you’re taking the land the cows are on, the water the cows take in, plus the much larger portion of land and water taken just to feed them over their lifetime.

Stay educated folks. Let me know if you need sources for any of this, I’m writing a whole research paper on ALL the different perspectives on the Vegan diet and performance in sports.

Ghost1 wrote:

RyecorDone wrote:

As a vegan, I can easily consume 80g of protein/ day without trying. That is enough. Too much protein is just a waste, and shortens your life.

Could you illustrate which are the 80 grams of vegan protein per day?

Also, how long have you been vegan, and which setbacks have you faced because of your regime?

Vegans require numerous supplements, which could easily be provided with a very limited animal products.

Veganism is probably too radical and unsustainable for most, and the plethora of anecdotal evidence attests to that.

Flexatarians (flexetarians) appear to have a good, reasonable middle ground balance.

You're really cherry picking who you are replying to. I don't take a single supplement or regular medication. I used to take sublingual B12, but I kept forgetting about it in the morning. Setbacks? I dunno...my wife and I had a baby this summer and THAT really put the damper on my training. I messed up my PF 3 years ago, and had Achilles tendonitis 4 years ago but aside from that I've never had a running related injury. I've never broken a bone in spite of never drinking a glass of cow's milk in my entire life. Again, someone who eats the occasional fish may be slightly better suited for running than me, but stop with the "vegans are weak" nonsense.

google dot com wrote:

Let me know if you need sources for any of this, I’m writing a whole research paper on ALL the different perspectives on the Vegan diet and performance in sports.

I'd love to see that paper when you're finished. Good luck, man!

Plants have protein. Animal protein comes from guess where? Yup.

Some famous vegetarians/vegans you may not ponder right off. Quite muscular. Secretariat. Man o’ War. Yup, race horses and horses. Ever seen the muscles on them?! And look, for them and for us a protein is a chain of 22 amino acids. Others? Rhinos. Elephants. Hippos. Very strong and fast animals. And many human athletes etc. So relax. As a shirt Amazon sells says, Be Calm, Plants Have Protein. And stop worrying about vegans and vegetarians so much. I don’t worry about you.

Watch some Neal Barnard MD on YouTube or Gamechangers on Netflix if you need a little more dietary awareness. And stop spouting untruths.

Ghost1 wrote:

If you are vegan, you will be limited in the amount of protein that you can ingest easily and efficiently. On, the other hand, ethically and from a moral point of view - veganism and those who practice it deserve a certain amount of kudos.

No this is simply untrue. Maybe a body builder would have a hard time getting enough protein as a vegan, but no endurance athlete who watches their diet struggles with protein.

The vast majority of vegans get way more than enough high-quality protein to sustain a highly active lifestyle. Nearly all plant products contain a good amount of protein per digestible calorie. While few plant products produce every amino acid you need, as long as you eat a varied diet, you'll get all of the required amino acids in the right does. For example if you eat rice, beans, seeds, nuts, wheat products and a wide variety of fruits and vegetables throughout the week, there is no way you'll become protein deficient as a vegan.

Now B12 and some other micronutrients are harder. B12 requires either eating algae or supplements. It isn't urgent though, most vegans take 10+ years before they'd experience B12 deficiency symptoms, and even then B12 injections cures those with deficiencies rather quickly.

I'm not a vegan but let's not pretend that most vegans have a protein issue. Only junk food vegans who don't eat vegetables, or beans or nuts become protein deficient (but yes those types of vegans do exist).

I'm not a vegan but I don't drink milk (I think it's disgusting). I tend to think milk being needed for bone health is an outright fabrication. Look guys, do things the way you want. We all know runners are not prone to confrontation. You guys aren't the ones that proclaim veganism is the only or best way, and you know that because there is also not one way to train. You also know that there is a vocal minority of vegans that wish to see legislation eventually passed that will make the planet conform to your standards. Those are the people meat eaters oppose.

Ghost1 wrote:

RyecorDone wrote:

As a vegan, I can easily consume 80g of protein/ day without trying. That is enough. Too much protein is just a waste, and shortens your life.

Could you illustrate which are the 80 grams of vegan protein per day? ... Vegans require numerous supplements, which could easily be provided with a very limited animal products.

On a 2,000 calorie diet, you'd need 16% of your calories to come from protein in order to obtain 80 g protein. Now most runners eat way more than 2,000 calories so they'd probably need less than 16%, but lets just go with this.

Now lets look at some commonly eaten plant based food and see what % of their calories come from protein. Here's a random assortment I just looked up

Seitan - 78.4% protein

Tofu - 44.4% protein

Edamame beans - 40% protein

Tempeh - 39.2% protein

Soy milk - 36.4% protein

Kale - 34.4% protein

Broccoli - 33.6% protein

Red lentils - 30.4% protein

Black beans - 28.8% protein

Black-eyed beans - 27.6% protein

Chickpeas - 22.4% protein

Tomatos - 20% protein

Peanuts - 17.6% protein

Peanut butter - 16% protein

Cashews - 15% protein

Quinioa - 12% protein

Bell pepper - 12% protein

Yukon potato - 11% protein

Sweet potato - 9% protein

Brown rice - 8.5% protein

Bananna - 5% protein

Apple - 2% protein

As you can see, with the exception of fruit, almost all plant-based food has a good deal of protein. If you eat a varied diet, you'll get enough. It's really hard not to. You basically need to be eating a diet of exclusively fries, chips, pasta, fruit and rice to not get 80g. If you throw in the occasional veggies, beans or nuts, you'll get enough protein to live. And if you eat a varied diet you'll get enough to be a high-performance endurance athlete.

Yep.

It's pretty amazing what kind of a protein myth the meat industry created to make the people believe that you need to eat meat.

Ghost,

How hard do you have to try to be so wrong on every single thread you post?

Is it a bit?

kiowavt wrote:

Plants have protein. Animal protein comes from guess where? Yup.

Some famous vegetarians/vegans you may not ponder right off. Quite muscular. Secretariat. Man o’ War. Yup, race horses and horses. Ever seen the muscles on them?! And look, for them and for us a protein is a chain of 22 amino acids. Others? Rhinos. Elephants. Hippos. Very strong and fast animals. And many human athletes etc. So relax. As a shirt Amazon sells says, Be Calm, Plants Have Protein. And stop worrying about vegans and vegetarians so much. I don’t worry about you.

Watch some Neal Barnard MD on YouTube or Gamechangers on Netflix if you need a little more dietary awareness. And stop spouting untruths.

You understand how different species work differently? We're not horses.

Why don't you tell lions to eat grass?

fellow vegan wrote:

Take a look at the below article if you feel so inclined...

https://www.animal-ethics.org/sentience-section/animal-sentience/what-beings-are-conscious/

Thanks for the article. Do you find this persuasive? A few thoughts:

1) It notes that some bivalves have eyes, but I think vegans shouldn't eat those. I think the case is stronger that scallops have experiences.

2) One of the quoted articles -- "Substratum-mediated heart rate responses of an invertebrate to predation threat" -- is also about scallops.

3) "Bivalves have mechanisms that are analogous to opiate receptors possessed by other animals. In other animals, the function of these receptors is to make it possible to have their suffering relieved when they are in significant pain. Due to this, a very plausible explanation of why bivalves have them, maybe the most plausible one, is that they can suffer too." This conclusion does not follow. Another plausible explanation for those analogous mechanisms is that they are vestigial.

4) Bottom line, all eating probably causes suffering. How many mice are killed when an acre of wheat is threshed? (I don't know). Or orangutangs for palm oil, squirrels when maple syrup is tapped, etc. The best we can do is minimize, I think.

Thanks for the reply, Scott. All good points. I agree that the conclusion that bivalves can suffer does not *necessarily* follow from the points made in the article. But personally, the article raises enough doubt to make me not feel comfortable eating them. As I said initially, totally fine if you feel differently, just did want to make sure everyone knew the science on this is not necessarily settled.

Ghost1, you asked about where I get my protein, so here's yesterday's intake, not in order, with an estimate of protein quantity - no way for me to judge as to how much actually gets assimilated. I have no health issues or food sensitivities that I am aware of.

6 slices of 'oatnut' bread. - 24g

1/8C tvp - 6.5g

1 tbs flax seed (ground) - 2.5g

2.5C soy milk - 17.5g

1/3C (dry) bulgar wheat - 8g

1/4C (dry) lentils and oats and salsa - 7g

2C mixed veg (corn, g. beans, peas, carrots) - 8g

1.5C (cooked) refried beans - 19.5g

3 tbs. Peanut butter - 12g

1/2C Italian kale - 1g

1/16C cashews _ 1g

10 pistachios (raw) - 1.2g

2.5C salad (spinach and 'spring greens' - 3g

1 tangerine - .7g

1 apple - .5g

9 tortilla chips - 2

Rough total = 114.4g of protein

I'm still experimenting, been vegan for 4 months, run mostly EZ miles about 4 times/ week anywhere's from 5 and 8 mi. each. A 70+yr old 'hobby jogger'.

I occasionally take in a multivitamin 'horse pill' to make sure I don't miss something nutritionally.

Thanks for listing. This shows that vegetarians or vegans don't have to worry about proteins.

Eat more Tofu wrote:

Thanks for listing. This shows that vegetarians or vegans don't have to worry about proteins.

Glad to lend an encouraging hand. But, I sometimes feel like a gorilla, eating all the time. If I wasn't running and doing calesthenics I don't know that I would get enough protein without taking in excess Calories. I'd like to do this vegan thing in a way that anyone could, with minimal energy use (in preparation and in food distribution) and without having to be somewhat "sciency". We don't have a culturally proven 10,000 yr. traditional diet in the US, and we can easily screw ourselves over. I posted my typical intake so that others with expertise might be able to find fault in it, 'cause I just don't know enough.

ScottEvil wrote:

squirrels when maple syrup is tapped, etc.

Pretty sure no squirrel has ever been killed by a maple tree being tapped.

If it can't get out of the way of a drill it probably should be Darwined.