How long of a “long run” do ultra-runners do for a 100k race

100k training is very similar to regular marathon training, but with an obvious emphasis on long runs and in particular on "sandwiches", which are just two long runs back to back. Completing that second long run on tired legs is key. That said, in an actual race, depending on conditions (trail vs road, mountains vs flat, heat, rain etc) you might have to take walking breaks, and still have a very strong result.

Camille Heron, aka Jaguar, goes no further than 22 miles

I'd also like to add that I did ZERO back-to-back long runs training for any ultra I've ever done. I don't think it makes sense (for my own training and body). I think people do it because it seems like it would simulate the fatigue you get in the second half of ultras, but I don't think that you could really simulate that fatigue. The longest race I've trained for would've been about a 10-11hr race, FYI. I probably would've done some back-to-backs training for a 100 miler or a tougher 100k.

Here's why I never did them: if you are doing high enough volume already, it's not much different to extend a 14 mile run to a 20 mile run. The back half of ultras for me have never felt like anything I've ever experienced in training runs, nor would I want to experience that in a training run for the most part. The cause is poor nutrition/hydration usually, which can't be replicated in training. WHy would people suggest doing back to back LRs for an ultra when you wouldn't do it to "simulate fatigue" of a shorter race? the second half of a 10k is hard but nobody suggests doing hard intervals or tempos on back to back days (unless you have an Italian/spanish pharmacist).

Training for my ~6hr 50 miler the longest run I did was 34 miles which took probably 4.5hrs, and most of it was slower than goal pace. That was 3 weeks pre-race and it didn't feel all that difficult. In fact, it wasn't even my hard workout that week. The reason I went to 34 is that it was convenient for a point-to-point route, on my race course, on the exact terrain, in similar conditions. It just worked out that weekend. I trained for a 68mi race later last fall and my longest run was my tune-up 50k (plus warmup/cooldown, roughly 33mi total) although I did another run in Hawaii that took 5:15 over 25mi.

and don't try to copy Camille Herron. she is very misleading as she goes around saying she doesn't run much beyond 20 miles but she doubles on those days with at least another hour, and I've heard even more than an hour for her doubles. plus, she's a genetic freak, as is any WR holder.

I am not quite as fast are you but I also do not do back to back long runs. I generally run the day after all my long runs and I sometimes may do a longish run (such as 12-14 miles) day after a 20 miler but nothing like the 30/20 or 40/30 like you see some people suggest. Most people I know or have talked to that do those sorts of runs though sacrifice their week day mileage for those runs. Some say they dont have enough time during the week get much running in, others I think legit think that is the best training for ultra's.

But yeah, even for 100 milers they are totally unnecessary IMO. I'd much rather run 10 miles a day with a 20 miler on the weekend. Whenever I've done back to backs I just feel beat up all the time and end up having to do a really aggressive taper or show up on race day over trained.

Great discussion here! I'm nowhere near elite, but usually top 10 in local races. I've tried a lot of different training protocols, usually end up injured, and have come to believe that less is more for me. After 50 miles, it's 90% mental and you just have to keep moving. The most I would run on a single run is 25 miles, and the most for a weekend is 20 + 15 for b2b runs (probably just once in the training cycle). I'll sometimes do a tune-up 50k (before 100k) or 50 mile (before 100 mile) as well. However, I successfully ran a 100k off mostly biking last summer, because I kept spraining my ankle. TLDR, you can't base your training off someone else's.

In the '70s there was a guy called Ken Young who was a 2:25 marathoner and one of the better 50 milers in the country. He did no long runs. He developed a theory about a "collapse point," a distance where you ran out of gas and would fall apart in a long race. He thought that in order to avoid collapsing in a long race you needed to average at least a third of the race distance for two months before the race. So he got ready for his 50 mile races by averaging a bit over 17 miles a day. He thought that was a better way because he could run faster in training. Cavin Woodward once set world records for 50 and 100 miles in the same race. I never saw any evidence of any runs longer than maybe 15-16 miles and never got much about 70 mpw.

My long runs are 18-22 miles and come back in the evening for 35-50 min. easy shakeout. Done it this way since 2008. Never done back to back long runs. Have done well with a marathon-50K race at a controlled effort 3-4 wks before a peak race. That’s it!

Fantastic! Thanks heaps Reed. I’m not a fast runner( marathon best last year’s CIM 3.13) and I’m getting older( 50 in May) but your advice is great. Thanks heaps. I’m guessing for a 50k race you could get away with just gels? I think the race rules stipulate you have to have a hydration pack as well as other stuff but I suppose you could fill up the pack with sports drink?

reed wrote: ultrarunning is not about suffering for competitive athletes. sure, on social media people like to play up their grittiness and toughness...but to race a good 50k-100k...there shouldn't be too much suffering going on.

Most people start too fast and are undertrained. Add in the aspect of fueling which becomes way more important...and it's a mess.

Yes and no, though your comment on pacing and undertraining is quite on point.

24 hour races and longer (definitely the pure running races: 48 hrs, 6 days, etc) certainly can and more often than not do involve suffering (what kind can vary) for even the front of the pack.

As far as 100 km goes, more than one elite runner has told me that they find 100 km (road-esque races) to be harder to race than 100 miles (presumably they meant 100 miles on trails) which can allow for more fluctuations in race flow than 100 km.

You're still here! I haven't seen anything from you in ages. How are you?

In a marathon, it's 8 seconds/mile too fast wrote:

The wall is when you run too fast of a pace for the distance you are attempting. If you get the pace right, you never hit the wall.

This is true. I have hit the wall in most of my marathons but never hit a wall in my 100k or 100 mile races.

SteelTownRunner wrote:

Yes and no, though your comment on pacing and undertraining is quite on point.

24 hour races and longer (definitely the pure running races: 48 hrs, 6 days, etc) certainly can and more often than not do involve suffering (what kind can vary) for even the front of the pack.

steeltown - I only meant for up to 100k that suffering shouldn't be a big factor. and mountain 100ks are a lot different than black canyon or bandera...24hr races get a bit of attention but I think the majority of letsrunners would rather hear about the prep required for 50k-100k as those are more approachable distances. Anybody coming to letsrun for specific advice on a race of 24hrs or more is a fool...

thanks Camille for chiming in. Have you coached anybody else with this strategy? max of 22mi plus a shortish double later?

richie - I've never done a race that had any mandatory equipment...but I live in the united states. don't read too much into my advice for nutrition as it's very individual, but I've never needed anything but gels plus electrolyte supplements. I've grabbed a cookie or some chips here and there, but only when I'm in a calorie deficit or having cramping issues. many people have success with eating little to no "real food" even in 100 milers. but you gotta figure it out for yourself...I for sure have not yet figured out a consistently successful nutritional strategy even for myself.

reed wrote:

Anybody coming to letsrun for specific advice on a race of 24hrs or more is a fool...

There is plenty of good advice here for races 24 hours or more. Might be not many knowledgeable people but they point you in the right direction.

But in ultrarunning there is not just one right answer for a problem. Different things work for different people at different times.

In a marathon, it's 8 seconds/mile too fast wrote:

The wall is when you run too fast of a pace for the distance you are attempting. If you get the pace right, you never hit the wall.

yep. this is the "secret". go slow,

you can do it easy off 100 miles a week with one 20 miler.

my girlfriend was last weekend 1st place tarawera 102k(ultra trail world tour) . It was the first ultra trail,after doing road marathons. she did maximum 24 miles in preparation.

HEYYYYY HIIIIII! HRE Question is how are you!?

We are doing great! Thank you for asking.

Let's see. New puppy so now we are up to four puppydogs. Gotta love goldens.

Running. and loving the trails.

I'm on isg

All the training distance recommendations sound good. Train for you hardest race from the start because between races you may have to almost go taper. That's what happened to me and I wasn't ready for all the violent terrain and elevation in my hardest race. I finished, but it was painful and almost wrecked me.

jaguar1 wrote:

My long runs are 18-22 miles and come back in the evening for 35-50 min. easy shakeout. Done it this way since 2008. Never done back to back long runs. Have done well with a marathon-50K race at a controlled effort 3-4 wks before a peak race. That’s it!

Very interesting.

How much faster than race pace do you run the 18-22 mile efforts? I'm guessing that essentially the 22 miler is a tempo run for you and you slow it down to "race pace" for the much longer races which is how you avoid your legs becoming a misery?

I've followed the Georgia Death Race the last few years and the profile looks absolutely intense and unique. 120k, with 20,000 ft climbing across East Coast esque terrain. Would love to hear feedback from anybody in this thread who has run it or plans to this year. The men/women who have earned their Golden Ticket there have fared well at Western States and others I am sure.

Had Morgan Elliott not bummed his foot bad, I am confident he would have been top 10 this past year. He was right in the lead pack looking strong until a nasty fall took him out at mile 40.