Which well known NCAA D1 distance programs are struggling

Good one. It’s a trick question, and the answer is:

There are no well known NCAA D1 distance programs.

That usually results in stronger distance programs though. Look at the Ivies for your evidence.

Wisconsin 4:04 8:06

Villanova 8:08

Princeton 4:12 8:09

Notre Dame 4:08 8:09

Providence

FSU

UTEP

WSU

Duke

How about the flip side?

Harvard 7:49

Montana St. 3:59

Hofstra 7:54

Binghamton 7:58

Nebraska 3:57

Iowa 7:58

Missouri 8:00

Agreed. How does Oklahoma State go from winning multiple national titles to not qualifying in 2019.... with regionals at their home course???

Neither the men nor the women made it to nationals. What does this say about the coaching there?

Distance guru wrote:

How about the flip side?

Nebraska 3:57

Yeah holy moly that Nebraska kid is insane. Only lost to Evan Jager and 1 other pro and beat every other collegiate runner

Wisconsin for men has taken a huge fall.

WESTERN KENTUCKY UNIVERSITY

I think there are several components to this explanation.

1. Life during the Fernandez, Verzbicas, Cheserek, Rupp and Hunter era perpetuated the instant gratification theory for most athletes. Unless an individual has that much talent and makes waves it is unwise to make a huge commitment or expect much from the sport. Many, as a result, stagnate with eegard to motivation.

2. The Foreign Effect. This has two parts: (a) The traditional powers with big name foreigners and (b) The mid majors with B-level Kenyans right out of Eldoret

(a) Example: Wisconsin

Group of talented instate kids including second generation runner Olin Hacker lived in the shadows of Morgan McDonald and Ollie Hoare most of his career. No chances to really mold their own version of the program or take the lead and grow. Once Olin had a perceived "fixed ceiling" the rest of the instate crew follows suit. They attained relative levels of success in HS which stagnated in college not just from better competition but from noticeable talent barriers in everyday practice.

The 1985 national cross country champion Tim Hacker (4:12/8:52), similar to Olin (4:07/8:57) in many ways, came in and made an immediate impact. His fellow instate freshman Stintzi, Easker and Jenkins all ran varsity right away. Many top 20 national recruits redshirt now and, in some cases, lose momentum.

(b) Example: Middle Tennessee

These type of athletes are seldom--maybe thirty nationwide--but never go unnoticed. They populate the 30-something sub-4 lists each year and fill out qualifying spots in the national meets. This takes away a pragmatic approach to training and overall the patience aspect in setting long term goals.

Both forms of the foreign effect stagnate personal growth and career opportunities.

3. Universities struggling with generational transitions on the academic side

This is hard to explain. Let's simply use the word "lag" as a launchpoint. The approaches that worked from 1946 to 1990 are by and large still in use except tacked on with additional expecrations.

* There is a lot o lose. This is a reserved bullet for increasing college costs and workplace expectations and requirements for the degree. If you study and play sports but fail to obtain the degree you might be in serious trouble.

* Mandatory monitored study sessions for student-athletes. While good in some ways it brings about a monotonous trend of consuming the student-athlete's entire day from the start of frosh year. Moreover, some types wont accomplish anything under such intense circumstances and it actually worsens GPA and work ethic. It becomes an added chore.

* Technology made several tectonic shifts in first world culture from 1997 to 2012 but the universities arent doing many new things to accomodate. More resources and technology inadvertently created higher expectations from professors. Accessibility and communication increased the pace of the classroom and so reading, writing and coursework increased using the past as a template. You are still expected to be studying anywhere from 3 to 6 hours per night at reputable schools but it is far more involved compared to previous expectations and workloads. The PC, the laptop, the internet and advanced networking all push the increase in academic demands.

* Title XI makes it unfair for college men trying to succeed. It hurts saying this. Women's programs have, at times, 50 women to bring along whereas the men usually have a limit of 12. Also, gone are the days of 4:20 walk-ons at many Big Ten schools and in are the days of 4:09 walk-ons. If Roy Griak were still alive he'd be the first to share stories of a guy who went from 4:40 to 4 minutes. I think there are plenty of 4:25 types with 4-minute talent but they will never have the opportunity in today's system. A 4:09 runner is very accomplished and even perhaps tapped just to get there whereas 4:25-4:20 is perhaps the opposite.

I want to respond in turn:

1. Stagnated with regard to motivation? That seems like a personal problem.

2. So you're saying Americans aren't that good? Again, a personal problem.

3(a). Not sure where you are going with this degree thing.

3(b). I would love to see anything to back how study halls lead to lower GPAs. That would be a fascinating study. Please let me know.

3(c). What??? Where did you come up with this thing about "more engaged" work? How is using electronic media for 3-6 hours harder than reading and writing for 3-6 hours? For kids who grew up with this. Again, would love to see anything backing your theory.

3(d). Maybe this is the biggest one, LOL. How is Title IX unfair for "college men trying to succeed," exactly? As I understand it there is an equal amount of men's and women's scholarships. If men want to succeed, they can put on some pounds and try out football. Likewise, I know quite a few 4:20ish high school milers who ran in college, many of them on scholarships. You can absolutely walk on to a good team like that, you just have to demonstrate that you will work hard.

For someone with a lot of opinions, you seem to have nothing to back those outlandish opinions.

poor coaching? wrote:

Agreed. How does Oklahoma State go from winning multiple national titles to not qualifying in 2019.... with regionals at their home course???

Neither the men nor the women made it to nationals. What does this say about the coaching there?

The kid who got 4th place the year before didn’t qualify for nationals this year. Somethings up.

Boise State Broncos? They were abysmal at Natties. No front runners? Will they even get a DMR to Indoors this year?

Oklahoma State Men is definitely the biggest one, not sure what's happening there. I would have to disagree about Wisconsin cause they still won Big Tens in cross country.

What about the Colorado State men? Thought they were good like 2 years ago.

Title IX is a legitimate reason that Male American Distance Running has suffered a bit. P5 teams used to keep 30 guys on the roster while they may only have 12 today. So if they used to take a 4:22 walk-on, it it would be 4:14 today. So there are many undertrained guys who end up in D3 with lesser competition that never reach their full potential that they could have had they been training with a guy like McDonald. That goes against one the poster's other reasons though.

I thought Title IX equaled out the scholarships, ie I get that each girls sport has more scholarship slots to balance out football on the mens side, but does that mean that the total of ROSTER spots has to balance out too? So are men's XC/Track roster slots reduced due to Title IX, or jut the scholarships?

Both. Title IX requires equal opportunity be provided. Here are 3 examples of XC roster spots.

Wisconsin 18 men 30 women

Arkansas 15 men 22 women

FSU 14 men 41 women

To give scholarships for something as meaningless as running to a foreign student is stupid. There are American athletes who could benefit from the coaching and the money. To those that say “maybe they should get better”, well you are right. They should. But that opportunity would exist if they didn’t have foreigners in their way taking up roster space and money. The foreign athletes can run in their own country.