Tuohy 9:40 3K 4:32 1500.... day after DR Sanders!

Exactly! Good to know that there's at least one other sane person Round Here!

It's dumb cuz he's saying that there's no recovery time and that every Runner can just run the exact same time they do on one day the next day...

so when people set World Records they can just do it again the next day if they wanted to. And what's more they could do it twice in the same day. Why didn't kipchoge just run back-to-back marathons in less than 4 hours. How about 3 in a weekend in under 6 hours. Apparently there's no recovery time ever necessary.

And how about actually trying to answer the question. Because I'm legitimately curious about some reasonable measure of the difference in running three races on a weekend verse 1.... also would be curious what do most professional runners do the day after a hard 3K or 5K.

Hardloper wrote:

Who cares

Um my brain cares alright genius! I would try turning those door knobs before you attempt to Ram your head through those wooden doors..... Door knobs are your friend!

3 mediocre races does not equate to 1 good race.

I would say she's in 9:15 shape. Happy?

Tuohy is on her way out. The prodigy jinx has struck.

This is getting ridiculous. Her first race was a race. There is no reason to believe that she could run significantly faster based on the fact that she ran slower the next day. I know many high schoolers who set multiple PRs at their state meet across a 2 day period. So using the crazy logic that is being used here, I guess all of those high schoolers could have run significantly faster.

Athletes of all levels in the NCAA triple all the time at conference championship meets and at NCAA's and they very often hit personal best times.

Galen Rupp won 3 NCAA championships by tripling in the DMR, 5k, and 3k. He split 3:57 in the DMR only 90 minutes after he won the 5k in 13:41, then the next day he ran 7:48 in the 3k.

Grant Holloway competed 7 times at NCAA's outdoors and ran 12.98 in the 110h (also prelims of 110h). Prelims of 4x4 and 4x1, finals of 4x4 and 4x1. 4x1 ran 37.97 and 4x4 was sub 3. He also long jumped 25 feet.

Indoors he had 6 events - the 60m and 60h (prelims and finals). He won both in PR times including collegiate record in the 60h and #8 all time in the 60m. He also ran the 4x4 and split 44 and long jumped 26 feet.

Even mediocre high school athletes will do the 4x8, 1600, and 800 at their state meet and run PRs in 2 or more. Same with mediocre D3 athletes.

The difference here is that Tuohy did not run anywhere close to her PRs in her triple, and it was an entirely unnecessary triple at a meaningless meet the 2nd day.

My guess this is what happened, could be completely wrong though.

She went out in the pro race trying to run a PR or close to it, it didn't go as planned and she had an off day. She is likely with even pacing and on a day she feels better or less stressed faster than that, who knows, maybe 9:15-9:20.

She likely wasn't happy with that outcome however and I'll give a little reasoning to that. If someone is stressed out about a big race it's usually because they want it to go well so badly that it causes that pressure/stress. So when that big race that they really wanted to do well in goes bad for whatever reason, they understandably are not happy.

Back to my guess... with her not being happy she decided, possibly unconsciously, that she was going to try to run faster the next day to prove to herself and others that she was was better than 9:32. Likely if she was in 9:01 shape she might have been able to be faster than 9:32 on the 2nd try if she was feeling better, but she isn't in 9:01 shape right now and it was the day after the 1st race so it went how it went.

Guess what... still not happy with that, Ok now I'm going to try to prove myself and everyone that I'm better than that in the 1500 with a solid time there, and that goes about how everyone except a young emotional teen girl would think it's going to go.

Athletes can run fast 2 to 3 days in a row, BUT that doesn't mean they should. I don't really think this weekend proves too much about where she is at or what she can be other than that she isn't in quite as good of shape as in the past(that's fine, It's January). It does show that the coaching and guidance she is getting isn't doing a great job of reeling her in.

I think your analysis of what happened is accurate. I don't think that it is due to being out of shape though. She is if fit but but her new level is 9:20 instead of 9 flat.

what kind of shape... all out? wrote:

To run a 4:30 1500 and a 9:40 3K the day after a fairly hard 3K seems pretty impressive

When you also factor in that she had no reason to run fast and could have run a 10:20 3 K and still easily won

I was hoping some actual Runners would weigh in and give an idea of what kind of times they could do over a weekend like this compared to running 1 all out race and then taking a couple of days recovery

2x3000 @10k (i.e. ~20s/mile slower than 3k pace) pace with say a 5 min rest followed by 1500 m at around 5k pace is a hard work out but doable. Obviously adding in hours of rest makes it pretty easy.

I doubt she is in 9:00 shape these days. Maybe 9:20. What we don't know is how hard these 2nd races were. Maybe the idea was to run 3k at about 5k pace (i.e. 16 min 5k) and then 1500m at 3k pace and she had a lot in reserve.

Maybe this weekend didn't go as planned for her, or maybe it did.

Last year in an interview after the Dr. Sanders race she said her take-away was that she needed to get better at getting herself in position closer to the rail. Remember she got stuck running on the outside for a while. She did that somewhat better this year. Maybe the goal for this race was to have another practice run at going out with a fast, tight field and getting a good start in preparation for her 5k.

Maybe the big goal is the 5k at the end of February, and everything is aimed at being at her best for that and trying for the standard.

My other thought is that Mary Cain comes off to me as intense, and she said that she and Touhy were alone for a moment before the race and that she spoke with her. And then they were next to each other on the starting line. There is a photo of them where Touhy has an annoyed look on her face. Maybe it messed with her a little and screwed up her focus. This thought is purely speculation on my part, but starting a race with bad energy can make you tighten up.

Everything I just said might turn out to be crap. Time will tell, but I am optimistic that she is going to come back strong even if she is going through a lag right now. Even though 9:32 wasn't close to her PR, it is still a time that only a small % of high school girls could ever hope to see on their best day.

Seriously you can't see how silly that argument is?

Galen Rupp was running at the NCAA championships

Katelyn Tuohy is running early in the season

What are the odds Galen Rupp took a couple of days off after those performances

Maybe even a week off

Katelyn Tuohy is trying to avoid the same fate as last year when she had to take a month off

I think it's smart not to kill yourself the first month of a 6 month track season!

The same posters who were certain that she would run 8:59 on Saturday are the ones who are happy with her performances. So I guess no matter what she did it would hace been great. When other high schoolers beat her, we will be told that she was just practicing tactics. I am sure Cain can still match her PRs also. She just chooses not to.

She's smart, why push for records in January. Her schedule just worked out to have two meets this weekend. I think she learned a lesson from overdoing it early in the track season last year. Probably gearing up to have a more consistent year this year. The 5K and New Balance National indoors I'll probably her Focus

She still seemed super dedicated and is working as hard as she can. Look at her resume compared to the other top distance runners in the country. Most of them haven't even run a distance race this season

She's being smart and doing everything she can. If her genetics and development dictate another course for her future c'est la vie, that is life!

I think it's a bit more annoying all the dumb haters and people throwing out their doomsday predictions rather than people looking on the bright side

Can you show me the other girl distance Runners who are putting up more impressive weekend so far

And we got this other guy comparing it to NCAA Championship meets. And also another guy proclaiming magical magical times 4 all his favorite runners.

Who knows how much was planned, compared to not being able to run as fast, but if you got your eye on the future it makes sense not to kill yourself in January

When Ryen Frazier won the triple at NB Nationals, her en route times were faster than Tuohy's times from last weekend.

Exactly! I'm sure she ran this weekend trying to build up her base and improve her training. That 20:11 6K time from club cross was no joke, would have put her fourth that NCAA. I doubt she's really lost conditioning. I mean you never know there's no guarantees, I don't know what's going on with her physically but she certainly given it a good effort. I hope this weekend was planned cuz it certainly makes more sense in the context of look into the future

Stop comparing this weekend to New Balance Nationals or NCA Nationals. Obviously people run faster at National meets which is the culmination of their whole season. This was an early-season meet.

Is this the special ed section of let's run? Am I meeting you guys at the park to teach you how to throw a frisbee? Are you guys all sitting in front of your computer's wearing protective headgear? All right I'll meet you guys on the shortest bus we can find and I want you all wearing helmets and oven mitts.! And don't worry I'm going to put extra duct tape on your oven mitts! Extra duct tape for everyone!! We're going to duct tape your oven mitts and your pants legs and wearing a duct tape your helmets on so you can wear them all day! Frisbee! Frisbee

Stopwatcher wrote:

She's smart, why push for records in January. Her schedule just worked out to have two meets this weekend.

Back to back statements that essentially contradict each other.

1) It's smart she's not over racing

2) However, she had back-to-back meets where she totaled 7.5k in January.

Who in the world thinks this is a good idea?

Good point. She ran 9:01 at this meet last year. She ran 9:10 at NB Nationals. So we should expect about 9:40 at NB Nationals this year if she makes the same progression as last year.