Cain and Tuohy Struggle at the Armory, Cain Gets Emotional When Talking About Her Biggest Regret at NOP

Stopwatcher wrote:

How was it an insane and dumb plan to stay healthy and build for the future

She got some experience running what's faster girls in a packed up race

What's the point with pushing for records if you could potentially injure yourself

It's a really smart plan to not worry about records and to just build for the future.

Do you really think any of the girls that ran Fast Times competed in races the next day

Do you think any of those girls ran two races a 3K and a 1500 the next day. a lot of them won't be running hard for weeks

Good points! Obviously time will tell.

It might not have been as clear-cut as everyone is making it

It could have been a situation where her coach said if you're feeling it go for the record or a fast time

But he also that if you're not feeling it there's always the high school team will be competing the next day so keep that in mind that if you want to ease up and compete in that the next day. Probably one of those see how you feel situations and whatever you think is best

Cain is not able wrote:

Having watched these races, pretty sure she was trying to run 9:10 in the first and 9:20 in the 2nd. If she tries this strategy in a high level HS race, several girls will track her down. She needs to run a more even pace to have a shot of hitting 9:15 which still probably won't be enough to be the top HSer.

Wait. 9:10 on Saturday and then 9:20 on Sunday? I think if she could do that she would be in way better shape than 9-minute PR. It would take one of those top girls who can run like an 8:45 to be able to do that

Everyone is not making it clear cut. It appears that there are two distinct opinions. One opiniin is that Tuohy is now a 9:20 3k girl whonis trying to run 9 flat. The other is that she just had another off day.

Genius, it's called getting used to the pacing and getting your body used to doing it for as long as you can without overdoing it

It's also called getting experiencing running in a pack in a crowded Indoor Race what's 16 fast girls

You don't think it makes more sense for her to get experience so when she's in college she has a little familiarity

All right we know this

She ran a 9:32 3 K on Saturday

She then ran a 943 k and a 432 1500 on Sunday

Did she also run a relay on Sunday? Probably not but does anyone know for sure?

And did anyone see the races and see how when did she was afterwards?

If she didn't look that winded, then what's a reasonable guess at her best 3K, if she trained smart towards the end of the season??

My guess would be somewhere around 9:05 to 9:10 depending on the day in the race.

You are crazy if you think her college coach is happy with this performance. They would much rather have seen her skip that meet and cruise to 9:30 on Sunday looking comfortable.

Seriously? Your on a running site I assume you have some familiarity with running

What runners run a hard race on a Saturday and then followed up competing in 2 races on Sunday

In what world does that ever happen?

The fact that she ran 7.5 K of racing over 2 days at about the same pacing shows that she wasn't running hard except for the first 2K of the Pro Race

Cain is not able wrote:

You are crazy if you think her college coach is happy with this performance. They would much rather have seen her skip that meet and cruise to 9:30 on Sunday looking comfortable.

I didn't say her college coach was happy

Hey you claim to be at the races right? So how when did did she look afterwards?

If you saw the races you should know what kind of shape she's in. I can't really judge cuz I didn't see the races but can just go by the times

When she gives an all-out effort she's super winded. To the point of almost not being able to walk for a couple minutes. My guess is that there was nothing like that

From the stream on Saturday she looked rough the last few laps when you caught a glimpse of her.

I don't think running 2 sub par races in back to back days proves she is way faster than that or that she was taking either on easy.

I agree in a more even paced effort Saturday she likely could have gone 9:15-9:20, an incredible result for a HSer, basically only overshadowed by the fact that she ran 9:01 last year. BUT this wasn't a 9:15 race it was a race going sub 9 and she was there to try to race and see if she could do her best, maybe not the smartest move but again, she did it last year and it tends to be their MO. She simply for whatever reason, as her coach said, didn't have it that day. In my mind, fine, that all makes sense whether I agree with it or not. But to put her back out there the next day with what looks like her plan of still trying to go fast, is bad.

But to say just because she went that fast 2 days in a row proves that's the plan or that it was easy is not as sure of a thing as you say. Pros do it all the time with prelims and semis. You likely can run pretty well 2 days in a row. The problem is you rarely should, especially at some random indoor meets.

blame it on the rain wrote:

Genius, it's called getting used to the pacing and getting your body used to doing it for as long as you can without overdoing it

Yeah... "not over doing it" = absolutely blowing up the last few laps?

You call it what you'd like. I'll call it a terrible race with poor pacing. She lost to Cain, dude.

I would speculate that she went into the race trying to run comparable to her previous times, ran the first 2k at that pace, then realized she was having a bad day and probably took her foot off the gas the final 1k rather than push for a 9:15-9:20 ish time. Having not gone all out for a full 3k and just to get the race out of her system, she ran the next day knowing she would not pushed at all.

I don't really care about all of the speculation about what happened. I am more interested in analyzing the races in order to predict what will happen. I think her best 3k this year will be 9:15. I think she will finish about 3rd in national high school races regardless of the distance.

macdaddy wrote:

blame it on the rain wrote:

Genius, it's called getting used to the pacing and getting your body used to doing it for as long as you can without overdoing it

Yeah... "not over doing it" = absolutely blowing up the last few laps?

You call it what you'd like. I'll call it a terrible race with poor pacing. She lost to Cain, dude.

You didn't notice that she started on the outside. Then got a rail position. Then look to pass on the outside. Then got a rail position again

She's had a little experience running in the pack with girls who are faster than her

Seems like a smart move to just get used to maneuvering in that kind of race and then shutting it down once you drop back from the pace

What difference does it make if she runs a 9:22 or a 9:32

Yeah with even pacing she could have run a 920 without killing herself but she wouldn't have got any experience running in the pack

Who knows how calculated her weekend was but to me it seems a lot smarter to forget about times right now and build for the future

Last year she ran her two best races of the Season indoors and then ended up overdoing it and having to take time off from training completely. Like a month off. Hope she forgets about chasing records and builds for the future

Pretty sure when they do preliminaries in a 5K or even a 3K and then a final they have a rest day in between.

The rest of the season in the next couple of years will tell but I don't know if anyone else in high school could have run the time she did this weekend. Maybe Dudek could, maybe thorvaldson could. Obviously we'll see how the season plays out but seem pretty impressive to me I had no idea on Saturday that she was going to run again on Sunday

Forward Thinker wrote:

I don't really care about all of the speculation about what happened. I am more interested in analyzing the races in order to predict what will happen. I think her best 3k this year will be 9:15. I think she will finish about 3rd in national high school races regardless of the distance.

The big National distance meet will probably be New Balance National indoors 2 mile

Tuohy is also scheduled to run a pro 5K

Last year Tuohy ran a 951 for an easy win

Starliper Dudek Katelyn heart Sydney thorvaldson Taylor ewert Claire Walters will probably be the top competition but some of them might focus on the mile. Let's see what happens my money is still on Katelyn Tuohy overall it seems like a pretty impressive weekend of running depending on how big of an effort this was for her

Several high school girls could break 16 for 5k. That would have them splitting what Tuohy ran on Saturday and faster than her race on Sunday.

Stopwatcher wrote:

runn wrote:

I'm going to add this in- Tuoghy is a senior in high school (in NY State). She's an excellent student.

This past week all over NY was "Regents" Week- Finals for 20 week courses (which most seniors take), mid terms which some AP teachers give.

It could have been a rough week on top of everything else.

I don't think was a rough week I agree with those who are saying she purposefully eased up

There is no way that if she gave an all-out effort she could come back the next day and run to reasonably Fast Times

I'm not sure why everyone wouldn't be able to pick up on this obvious fact

If 932 was a fast time for her she wouldn't have run a 9:40 the next day.

Why don’t you guys stop trolling

Tuohy overstrides early, and that gets her in trouble. You can see in the photos that she is muscling it along.

The pressure should be transferred to the coach. She has become very heavy on her feet and its time to race

Cain is not able wrote:

Several high school girls could break 16 for 5k. That would have them splitting what Tuohy ran on Saturday and faster than her race on Sunday.

What current High School runners on the girls side have broken 16 in a 5k besides Katelyn Tuohy?

I'm pretty sure no one else has

And what math are you using

16 minutes in a 5k breaks down to 3 12 per k

Tuohy average that for her whole weekend of 7.5 K running. She ran 23:44 for 7.5 k which I'm pretty sure works out the 3:10 pace

Which would mean a 1550 5K

can you quote sometimes for these other high school girls who can run that fast

9:32.88 is 15:55 pace and 9:40.77 is 16:07 pace. Expect Dudek to run 15:40 and Starliper to run 15:50 and Hart to run 16. So you should expect that they will split under 9:30. Yet Tuohy is only racing 9:30.