Intereseting video by Paul Freary.
Intereseting video by Paul Freary.
Rehash of things that are already known by anyone interested in the shoe controversy, gets several facts wrong, adds nothing new to the conversation.
For instance, Kipchoge's WR wasn't run in standard Next%s nor was the Next% available to all: he ran a Next% tooling under a 4% flyknit upper. So yes, it was a prototype, and yes, it was not available to all.
2017, another prototype significantly different to what was "available to all."
Wildhorse wrote:
2017, another prototype significantly different to what was "available to all."
https://images.app.goo.gl/iwRA6YHaztxQKsyGA
Case(s) in point for why I don’t think the goo-shoe being sold to the public is anything remotely similar to prototypes/samples being used by Nike’s top-tier stable of athletes.
If the rules are applied, which they should unless we want to turn this sport into a bigger mockery than it already is due to doping, the fastest marathon time run in shoes in accordance to the rules at the time was Bekele's 2019 Berlin (he ran in standard Next%s).
Kenenisa Bekele should be the current marathon WR holder.
Wildhorse wrote:
2017, another prototype significantly different to what was "available to all."
https://images.app.goo.gl/iwRA6YHaztxQKsyGA
The Vaporfly Elite, which is what was used in Breaking2. I don't have the article in front of me, but I remember reading about how the Vaporfly Elites were specifically tuned (the carbon plate) for each athlete. A stiffer, or different shape carbon plate could make a big difference.
Aside from London 2019, I don't think Kipchoge has ever used a production Vaporfly shoe in competition. Chicago 2014 was the last time I've seen him in a normal shoe (the Zoom Streak 5). Even in 2015, he wore the Zoom Streak 6, which wasn't on sale until a year later.
Not a prototype - those are the Vaporfly Elite, which the Next% took its midsole shape from.
Nike sold a very limited run of the Vaporfly Elite & Vaporfly Elite with the 3D printed upper at NYC Marathon and a couple other races
Therefore, not reasonably available to all.
Jay See wrote:
Not a prototype - those are the Vaporfly Elite, which the Next% took its midsole shape from.
Nike sold a very limited run of the Vaporfly Elite & Vaporfly Elite with the 3D printed upper at NYC Marathon and a couple other races
We don’t know that for sure. I’m very aware of what the shoe appears to be.
____
Re: Bekele, if I’m not mistaken he did not like the Vaporfly initially because it was too soft. Now I’m not drawing any comparison between myself and Bekele, but in my own experience the excessive cushion disrupts how my calves fire and aggravate dormant soleus/gastroc issues, which I think may be similar to what bothered Bekele for years. The regular Zoom Fly, with its much more stable and stiff feel, do a lot less damage in terms of re-aggravating the calves.
Ergo, as before, we have zero knowledge of what the professionals are wearing in terms of what’s “under the hood” with what are more than likely one-off sample shoes tailored to the runner.
Nike has a custom production shop on campus. Their top athletes are not wearing off-the-shelf models that anyone can buy at FootLocker or Dick's. Uppers are tailored specifically to the athlete's feet and the midsoles/outsoles are usually a generation or two ahead of commercially available stock.
Dennis Kimetto and Wilson Kipsang before him held the last TRUE world records in the marathon, wearing shoes with NO carbon fibre spring plate and NO leg-lengthening stack height:
Wildhorse wrote:
If the rules are applied, which they should unless we want to turn this sport into a bigger mockery than it already is due to doping, the fastest marathon time run in shoes in accordance to the rules at the time was Bekele's 2019 Berlin (he ran in standard Next%s).
Kenenisa Bekele should be the current marathon WR holder.
Bekele has a modified Next%
https://tracktalk.net/uploads/default/original/3X/e/8/e8568c19dbb17c7b115a193934823cc83accebb2.jpegtruth hertz wrote:
Dennis Kimetto and Wilson Kipsang before him held the last TRUE world records in the marathon, wearing shoes with NO carbon fibre spring plate and NO leg-lengthening stack height:
https://gearpatrol.com/2017/02/24/adidas-adizero-sub2/
Kipsang doped bruh.
forcerunner wrote:
Wildhorse wrote:
If the rules are applied, which they should unless we want to turn this sport into a bigger mockery than it already is due to doping, the fastest marathon time run in shoes in accordance to the rules at the time was Bekele's 2019 Berlin (he ran in standard Next%s).
Kenenisa Bekele should be the current marathon WR holder.
Bekele has a modified Next%
https://tracktalk.net/uploads/default/original/3X/e/8/e8568c19dbb17c7b115a193934823cc83accebb2.jpeg
How can you tell? Looks like a regular Next% to me. The view isn't 100% from the side, it shows a bit of the outsole, and that point of view, coupled with the flattening of the telephoto lens, distorts the shape of the shoe somewhat and makes the midsole appear thicker.
I can confirm Bekele had "customized" Next%, not sure I'd call them modified, but customized to his gait and power positioning.
What's the history of full carbon-fiber plates in long-distance track spikes? What's the fastest 10,000m ever ran in them, if any ever existed?
They don't go full even in middle distance spikes. Nike's 3/4 length concave up plates are the most annoying and useless feature ever and make their brand unwearable.
Paul nails it.
Someone high-jump in these.
UA Runner wrote:
Aside from London 2019, I don't think Kipchoge has ever used a production Vaporfly shoe in competition. Chicago 2014 was the last time I've seen him in a normal shoe (the Zoom Streak 5). Even in 2015, he wore the Zoom Streak 6, which wasn't on sale until a year later.
And yet in Chicago he ran 2:04:11 in one of his first ever marathons. Do you really think he's capped off in his capabilities at age 29 when he did that? It's perfectly reasonable to think he can run a couple minutes faster over the next several years training 100% for his two marathon races he does per year. His life is completely focused on running his goal marathon race, and that's why he ran 2:01:39, not because of magic shoes. Give him the Adidas shoe with the same foam as the Next % and he still runs 2:01. Make him keep wearing the streak 5 from Chicago 5 years ago and he's still probably running 2:02 in Berlin two years ago.
Loved Paul’s pragmatic point of view. I still feel after watching this, the new models are only a theoretical improvement in efficiency. Without a mechanism, they can’t give you more than you already have.
Wildhorse wrote:
forcerunner wrote:
Bekele has a modified Next%
https://tracktalk.net/uploads/default/original/3X/e/8/e8568c19dbb17c7b115a193934823cc83accebb2.jpegHow can you tell? Looks like a regular Next% to me. The view isn't 100% from the side, it shows a bit of the outsole, and that point of view, coupled with the flattening of the telephoto lens, distorts the shape of the shoe somewhat and makes the midsole appear thicker.
The standard off the shelf Next % will have paint on the medial and lateral side underneath the ball of the foot. The tracing of the paint will follow a similar path of the curvature of the plate.
This midsole Bekele has does not have any paint at all, which means it is a customized pair just for him.
I have also heard rumbling of the curvature of the plate in this pair, even a double plate, but no one is for sure because this is a one of a kind pair of shoes just for him.
RIP: D3 All-American Frank Csorba - who ran 13:56 in March - dead
Great interview with Steve Cram - says Jakob has no chance of WRs this year
RENATO can you talk about the preparation of Emile Cairess 2:06
2024 College Track & Field Open Coaching Positions Discussion
Hats off to my dad. He just ran a 1:42 Half Marathon and turns 75 in 2 months!
adizero Road to Records with Yomif Kejelcha, Agnes Ngetich, Hobbs Kessler & many more is Saturday