low carb diet and IM for 3 months, do I now go all in on carbs week of marathon?

Dis gon be good...

As long as you’re wearing vaporflys you should be good

I think Chris Froome is very low-carb or keto 24-7, then drinks Maurten DURING competition.

There's a bit more science going on at Ineos than around here, so you might consider that.

FFF wrote:

I think Chris Froome is very low-carb or keto 24-7, then drinks Maurten DURING competition.

There's a bit more science going on at Ineos than around here, so you might consider that.

Okay interesting feedback. I'm not trying to spend a bunch on them fancy vaporfuel shoes or boujie gels but I see that the Maurten gel is all carb no fats that he is using during competition. No lie I was gonna go to waffle house and get a bunch of honey packets and just down honey during the race, rinse with water at the stations

As I understand it, you will be fine taking carbs in the morning of the race despite having not done so for a few months. You have trained your body to know how to burn fat, efficiently. During the race your body does not need to be in "ketosis." It only need to know how to process that precious fat when it needs it during the race, which you allegedly have done.

FFF wrote:

I think Chris Froome is very low-carb or keto 24-7, then drinks Maurten DURING competition.

There's a bit more science going on at Ineos than around here, so you might consider that.

No. He's done lowish carb for short periods during training to lose or maintain weight. Did a more extensive period when he first moved up to senior because he was chubby. Skyneos has been open about nutrition and you can see what they did.

Basically I'm asking should I eat carbs the morning of the race, or should I fast as usual and then take in carbs after mile 13 of marathon.

Last night I did long run of 19 miles, only took in water during the run, according to watch I burned 2283 calories. I was a bit wobbly starting around mile 15 but by no means did I feel like I ever experienced "the wall". However, I assume had I done 20 miles, the "wall" would have been quite apparent to me pretty soon.

In these videos is he taking only fats in while racing? This does not seem efficient to me. But I'm no scientist.

TheQuarrymen wrote:

Basically I'm asking should I eat carbs the morning of the race, or should I fast as usual and then take in carbs after mile 13 of marathon.

Last night I did long run of 19 miles, only took in water during the run, according to watch I burned 2283 calories. I was a bit wobbly starting around mile 15 but by no means did I feel like I ever experienced "the wall". However, I assume had I done 20 miles, the "wall" would have been quite apparent to me pretty soon.

In these videos is he taking only fats in while racing? This does not seem efficient to me. But I'm no scientist.

No, he is taking carbs in-race. Watch the video for details and rationale.

For a marathon I would pre-feed 90 minutes before with UCann, then fuel normally, preferably with Maurten (with fewer carbs needed since you should be burning fat pretty well).

It depends on how fast you want to run.

Carbohydrates are your high octane fuel.

Fats are your diesel.

You can run on fat as fuel, no question, but for high intensity (anything requiring >65% of max) you’re better served by burning carbohydrates. It is a more efficient fuel as the oxygen cost to burn fat is higher (so while fat is more abundant and has essentially endless supply, your running economy is lower than burning carbohydrate).

If you only replace carbs for 1 day/the morning of, you will still have elevated fat burning rates, but you will also still have impaired ability to burn carbs. If you carb load for a week your muscle will reset back to “normal” and use both fuels as needed (i.e. you’ll lose your “keto adaptation”).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17465604/

https://journals.humankinetics.com/view/journals/ijsnem/29/2/article-p117.xml

This is a bloody fantastic answer, appreciate it @car analogy. I feel as though I wasted these months going keto after reading and looking at these. I want to run fast. Really fast. Gimme that octane. Looks like I will indeed be going the route of grabbing honey packets from waffle house and chowing down on those the whole race.

I predict diarrea.

Predictor wrote:

I predict diarrea.

Why. I figured honey packets would be better than syrup packets.

Pick up several of those small homey packets for energy during the race. Honey gives a nearly instant energy boost.

One every 4-5 miles should be more than enough.

Louise Burke is a high-carb industry shill who has no understanding of being a true ketogenic athlete. Her specialty is to design "studies" so that athletes are forced to perform before they have fully become fat-adapted, much less metabolically flexible, insuring the outcome of "superior" carb substrates.

If you have been doing keto properly, you will have no problem burning carbs when the time comes. In fact the additive effect will be even greater, day of the event. But yeah, believe a random message board poster instead of a world-record-setting ketogenic athlete. At least you will have the sugary starchy pleasure of destroying any metabolic gains you made in the last three months.

Peter Attia has written about his experiences with ketones and performance

Link to get you started:

https://peterattiamd.com/experience-exogenous-ketones-2/

My answer will probably not mean much since I'm a hobby jogger AT BEST but I've been keto for a while now. I eat carbs starting the morning before a race. I carb load and it does make me feel instantly better than when I'm running without carbs. But I'm also only taking in 1200 calories a day +100 per mile. On carb days I ignore calories.

BUT my big question would be have you tried coming off diet directly to eating honey? Because your stomach will not likely tolerate honey like it used to. I had a stomach made of steel until I keto'ed then broke diet. I've gotten to where I can switch back and forth now without much trouble but there are some foods that set my stomach off and I spend hours going in and out of the bathroom. Painful hours. I thought it was just me but if you look in the keto groups you'll find people telling others their horror stories when they went back to a normal diet. I wouldn't want that to be your experience during a race.

This is a good point and is why I recommended fueling with UCann and Maurten, as both of those get glowing reviews for being easy on the gut. Of course a trial run or two with these prior would be worthy.

I'll look into the Martian and Uconn gels tonight at the running store. Also after more research I found out I haven't even been keto, just low carb. I was eating a ton of protein in addition to fat...apparently the protein breaks down into glucose as well it just makes your body work harder to do so.

I think I will do the traditionally carb load 2 nights prior to the race. Race morning, 1 boiled egg and 1 avocado. During the race either the waffle house honey packets or the boujie brand gels you want me to buy.