can you run sub 12.5 flying 100m and 20 minute 4 mile tempo. are you also a sub 4 miler!?

Definitely crazy talk here. A 100 fly should never be a requirement for a 4 minute miler, and I couldn't imagine anyone running slower than 12 for a 100 fly. As far as I know, the slowest 400 meter time possible for someone that is in shape to run a 4 minute mile is around 54-55 seconds. If anyone can show me where a sub 4 miler ran slower than a 55 second 400 I would be greatly interested to see.

Belarussiya wrote:

Definitely crazy talk here. A 100 fly should never be a requirement for a 4 minute miler, and I couldn't imagine anyone running slower than 12 for a 100 fly. As far as I know, the slowest 400 meter time possible for someone that is in shape to run a 4 minute mile is around 54-55 seconds. If anyone can show me where a sub 4 miler ran slower than a 55 second 400 I would be greatly interested to see.

12.5 was Bekele's top speed in his track running prime. Nick Willis knows enough about running to make these comments without ridicule.

The key thing to this is how you define “tempo.” If It’s your 1-hour race pace, then you’re basically a 1:05 half marathoner.

People are going to confuse his take with someone who can race 4 miles in 20:00, which is much less aerobically fit.

I’ve known quite a few 1:05 half miners who were 4:05-4:10 milers though. I think the better short distance cutoff for sub-4 is a 400, which for 99% of guys is going to need to be 51 or faster.

You have to read into what he is saying, which is that you need to develop your all round abilities. So a 400 time is misleading in that regard, hence the flying 100 requirement and the tempo, which would be a general training run suggesting sub 31 minute 10k ability.

Belarussiya wrote:

Definitely crazy talk here. A 100 fly should never be a requirement for a 4 minute miler, and I couldn't imagine anyone running slower than 12 for a 100 fly. As far as I know, the slowest 400 meter time possible for someone that is in shape to run a 4 minute mile is around 54-55 seconds. If anyone can show me where a sub 4 miler ran slower than a 55 second 400 I would be greatly interested to see.

There isn't a single guy who can only run 54 and broke 4. In fact, It's probably not possible or very, very, very rare to go sub 2 with 55 speed. If you had a 55 second 400m runner, the fastest they could run for the 8 (if they had extremely good endurance) might be mid-high 1:57. And no one can run sub 4 off of 1:57 800m

It is not common but I have coached several. I even had one who ran 53 and 1:53. 54 and 1:59 is pretty common for distance runners.

Who that can tempo 20 min for four miles can't run 100m under 12.5 with a running start?

Has to be someone that doesn't race on the track at all.

I ran 3:42 for 1500, so about a 4 flat mile.

I could race under 20 min for four miles but don't know if I could have done that comfortably in a tempo run.

Maybe

I raced 11 low in the 100 in high school.

Yes I can do both, the sub 12.5 would probably be a tighter finish, can easily run a sub 20 four mile tempo. Could race four miles in about 18:30. My mile PR is 4:04... So I don't think that's the formula for breaking 4. And actually, I can name a few guys that couldn't break 25 in an 8k race (so a tempo would be nowhere near 5 flat pace) but they could easily break 4 in the mile.

epicTCK wrote:

Belarussiya wrote:

Definitely crazy talk here. A 100 fly should never be a requirement for a 4 minute miler, and I couldn't imagine anyone running slower than 12 for a 100 fly. As far as I know, the slowest 400 meter time possible for someone that is in shape to run a 4 minute mile is around 54-55 seconds. If anyone can show me where a sub 4 miler ran slower than a 55 second 400 I would be greatly interested to see.

There isn't a single guy who can only run 54 and broke 4. In fact, It's probably not possible or very, very, very rare to go sub 2 with 55 speed. If you had a 55 second 400m runner, the fastest they could run for the 8 (if they had extremely good endurance) might be mid-high 1:57. And no one can run sub 4 off of 1:57 800m

One of lydiard's pupils had only 55 sec speed and ran 3,59. Perhaps one of the old timers here can recall his name. Age has got the best of me.

I run a 56 for 400m and my mile time is 4:38

I can go about 11.5 for a flying hundred and I hit my 4 mile tempos at 5:20-5:30 pace on a good day. Right now I can probably barely crack 2:00 in the 800 and I doubt I can go sub 4:30. Not so sure about this one.

I can run a flying 12.5 100m but can’t touch that tempo. I also can’t break 4. :)

I think Nick is just saying breaking 4 (or having any improvement especially in the mile) requires endurance, speed, and a great close to have a chance.

I think when he states bare bones, Nick is not referring to peak performance. Someone coming off CC season might only be able to run a 12.5 flying 100 because of specificity training. He at that time might be able to easily hit 20:00 for a 4 mile tempo. After a training block of mile training, that person would quite easily be down to a 11.5,. I've always been a strong proponent that if you want to break 4:00, you have to be able to run this. Take your 800m flat PR (and this requirement means you're focusing also on you're above and below events , 800m, 3k/5k) during peak season, double it and add 18 seconds (with rare excpetions). I.E. Alan Webb in his best year. 1:43.84 and 3:46.91. 1:43.84 x 2= 3:27.68+18=3:45.68. His 800m is graded stronger than his longer distances this year though. He ran a highly elite field as well in the 800m compared to his solo low key mile AR. As far as 800m possibility. The maximum capability I have always used is a 1.07/1.11 x 400m PR computation. This obviously won't work if you take a pure 10k and run in an 800m. This is referencing a pure 800m runner. I think Nick Symmonds is a great example of the 1.07/1.11 calculation. A 47.2 flat 400m PR for Nick, which he would pry agree he was in during the 2012 Olympic season gives you a 1:42.9.

Also....using the 1.07/1.11 on Nicks race. You get a 50.5/52.4 split for a 1:42.9. Go back and watch his race and his splits.

LetsEatDoughnutsInstead wrote:

I can run a flying 12.5 100m but can’t touch that tempo. I also can’t break 4. :)

No one cares.

yeah i'm trying to be a douche wrote:

LetsEatDoughnutsInstead wrote:

I can run a flying 12.5 100m but can’t touch that tempo. I also can’t break 4. :)

No one cares.

You're wrong. I care.

Why take the time out of the day to respond then? Doesn't that disprove your point since you obviously you felt the need to take seconds out of your day to respond and hear your voice???

wwharrier wrote:

Why take the time out of the day to respond then? Doesn't that disprove your point since you obviously you felt the need to take seconds out of your day to respond and hear your voice???

I wanted to help him by letting him know that nobody cares. You don't need to post that you're not a sub-4 miler (neither are 99.999% of people), it adds nothing.

I care! i created the damn thread :).