Heel-toe drop? Training in On shoes/flats?

No On shoe experience here, though been running in lower drop (0-4mm) shoes for the last 2 years.

This all depends on your goals and age.

I still have a pair of LT4's, but i wouldn't use those as my daily trainers.

Of course there will be people who say you don't need any shoe at all, but personally i don't think cushioning and even drops from 8-10mm are your enemy.

Even the elites do their big mileage in well cushioned, normal drop trainers, often even preferring softer surfaces to run on than tarmac or sidewalks if possible.

I'm a forefoot striker, but my runs are only 10km max. Usually more like 5-7.5k. If i try to run 10k or more on consecutive days for too long, i will feel it after a while. I'm in my mid 40's though, so maybe if you're younger and / or a better runner you could also use something like the Streak LT's for your mileage churning. My current shoes are zero drop (but well cushioned). For longer runs i recently got me a pair of well cushioned 8mm drop trainers as i don't want to unnecessarily stress my achilles too much in the long run ;)

I can strike with my forefoot in them too, but imo the idea of drops is not that you can finally pound your heels to the ground like crazy, but to allow your calves and achilles to withstand high mileage without injury with mid or forefoot strikes.

By all means buy a low drop or even some low cushioned shoe, but imo your typical trainer has it's purpose and that is churning big mileages. They don't prevent you from midfoot striking, they actually help you endure long distances without injury. Use your lower drop shoes for your shorter / faster fun runs (or speed training if you're serious about competitions)

I have a pair of On and love them, but mostly save them for races because they are expensive and not very durable. I'd say slightly below average durability. There's just not much to them, but what they have is great. If you have money to spend, I wouldn't worry about the drop being too low; I view them as big drop compared to zero drop.

mwh wrote:

I have a pair of On and love them, but mostly save them for races because they are expensive and not very durable. I'd say slightly below average durability. There's just not much to them, but what they have is great. If you have money to spend, I wouldn't worry about the drop being too low; I view them as big drop compared to zero drop.

I have a pair of On Clouds and my point of view is pretty close to this. I love them for track training and short runs. They're so comfortable and light. I have worn them for up to one hour on the road with no ill effects. They did wear through around the inside of the heel tab very quickly, which is very disappointing considering the high cost, but that has not continued.

For context, I'm 64, but a comeback runner. I've recently tossed out my orthotics and gone zero drop. I believe that change has contributed to keeping me injury and pain-free for several months, something that has never happened previously in my half century of injury-filled running life.

What shoes are you using that are zero drop? What was the transition to zero drop like? What prompted you to go that route? I am similar age and injury plagued.

Wonder wrote:

What shoes are you using that are zero drop? What was the transition to zero drop like? What prompted you to go that route? I am similar age and injury plagued.

Apart from the On Clouds, I also have Inov8 trailtalons as my main training shoe - for offroad running. They are just excellent. I have not started on long road runs yet, so I can't comment on that aspect. Maybe I'll needed better padded shoes. But what seems certain is that my decades of wearing orthotics for severe overpronation are behind me.

The transition was over 1-2 months. Starting with 10 (1min run + 1min walk) every other day. As you can imagine, I was pretty apprehensive after so many years of believing that my legs would fall apart without orthotics and lots of foam under them.

I made this transition thanks to my PT, who was trained by the guys at "The Running clinic". See

for their method of choosing the right running shoes.

Finally, I should add that I've been doing a lot of cross training for a couple of years now. Three one hour sessions weekly including: core and abs / MYRTL / yoga for the spine / balance board / single leg heel drops with a weighted backpack/ pullups & pushups. This has certainly contributed to my good running health too.

I believe YOUR own personal heel-to-toe drop is critical to running success. For me 6mm is ideal. 4mm slightly too little; 8mm slightly too much. You can monkey with with heel inserts.

I don't understand people using Vaporfly with its 11mm drop....and feeling ideal??????

Saucony used to conveniently label "drop" on their shoes. Sadly they don't do this anymore.

Anyone know of a website/link that lists heel-toe drop for the multitude of running shoes?

Again, YOUR own personal heel-toe drop is critical; the shoes you race in are critical.

Thoughts?

confused about shoes wrote:

My question is, if anyone here has trained in On shoes, how durable are they? Additionally, if I wanted to try training in flats like Nike LT 4s (inspired to ask by a recent thread here, not a big fan of cushioning anymore and want to try some low-drop more minimal stuff), should I try to ease them into my training because the lower drop might put some strain on my calves (same thing with low drop shoes/lightweight like On)?

I have a few pair of Ons and really like them.

I have a pair of the On CloudX, which I use as an everyday trainer, a pair of On CloudVenture which I, obviously, use as my trail running shoe, a pair of On Cloudflash which I use on race day/speed work/short runs, and a pair of On Cloud, which I just use to wear around (have ran in them a few times when I forgot my proper running shoes on a business trip).

I have had each pair for over a year and still run in them. I also rotate shoes, so they I don't use them daily. I probably run in the Cloud Ventures about once a week when I hit the trail and in the X and Flash ~1-2 times a month (I have about 8 shoes in my rotation at any given time).

As for the drop: you won't need to ease into your training. If you were going from a 10mm to a 2mm or 0mm, then you may want to take it slow. But going from 10mm to 6mm won't be an issue. I have 10mm drops in my rotation and 4mm drops in my rotation and never had an issue switching between them.

thanks for this, my run today i felt much better with my newer 880s landing midfoot, felt more natural even throughout the later miles. i think you're right, lower drop would be good for speedwork but too much strain for long miles.

@Harry Wales

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