Too soft, not responsive enough. Talking about sub-28 level, not college kids or penguins.
Too soft, not responsive enough. Talking about sub-28 level, not college kids or penguins.
birdbeard wrote:
Internetsherlock wrote:
In the 5k and 10k the vaporfly or next % might be actually a disadvantage. You do know that these shoes were created focusing to break the 2 hour barrier and not the 25 minutes 10k right ?
Yes but the studies say they are still better than track spikes down to 3k.
The "studies", huh? Please show us where "studies" have evaluated and shown this. I'd be interested to see that.
that swoosh life wrote:
birdbeard wrote:
Yes but the studies say they are still better than track spikes down to 3k.
The "studies", huh? Please show us where "studies" have evaluated and shown this. I'd be interested to see that.
“Here” you “go” have a “look”
https://runningmagazine.ca/sections/gear/the-nike-vaporfly-4-could-be-your-next-track-spike/birdbeard wrote:
that swoosh life wrote:
The "studies", huh? Please show us where "studies" have evaluated and shown this. I'd be interested to see that.
“Here” you “go” have a “look”
https://runningmagazine.ca/sections/gear/the-nike-vaporfly-4-could-be-your-next-track-spike/
Thanks for taking the time to send the link. Unfortunately, that's ONE arbitrary evaluation using 9 people in a completely uncontrolled environment and another using 4x5 minutes sessions with an unknown number of participants. Neither state any correlation of a specific 3k distance either. Was there a part referring to that I perhaps missed? As a side note, I would have loved to have seen the portion where the subjects ran on the treadmill in spikes. Epic.
birdbeard wrote:
Internetsherlock wrote:
In the 5k and 10k the vaporfly or next % might be actually a disadvantage. You do know that these shoes were created focusing to break the 2 hour barrier and not the 25 minutes 10k right ?
Yes but the studies say they are still better than track spikes down to 3k.
Keep your mind open until the studies are extremely compelling . Most of these studies are not very serious .
Jesus Christ, the shoes without a GREAT athlete are meaningless. I think Rhonex proved that today. (any doping speculation, shove it up you know where until you get any REAL evidence, sick and tired of that crap)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot wrote:
Too soft, not responsive enough. Talking about sub-28 level, not college kids or penguins.
Yeah, all those poor disadvantaged Nike sub28 athletes who have to wear their Vaporfly for 10k, right? Wanders surely would have cracked 27 yesterday with proper footgear and Sondre Moen has to be a total idiot to run a track 27:24 in Next%'s.
there's way too much talking about shoes.
Well in my opinion shoes have differences obviously but all its really overhpyed. The biggest thing is that people really belief in the vaporfly or next and really belief they can run faster with them. Great marketing by nike. And belief is very very powerful so you will actually see better times.
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot wrote:
Don't be silly, the shoe is designed to best aid half marathon and marathon strides, not 10K strides at that level.
Hmmm.... NO.... nobody (apart from Mary K) has used that shoe on a Marathon. The go-to has been the Adios for years... Sub2 didnt really pan out... now we'll see this new model.
If you had run in the Sen (and in the now discounted sister shoe Ren) you would know that is a 10k shoe at best. The grip of those little lugs is truly phenomenal but the shoe doesnt have that much cushioning. Ideal for track and 5k... and for the elite up to 10k....
Shame you guys in US are not able to get these shoes anymore.... and you clutch at straws posting stuff
KAV wrote:
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot wrote:
Don't be silly, the shoe is designed to best aid half marathon and marathon strides, not 10K strides at that level.
Hmmm.... NO.... nobody (apart from Mary K) has used that shoe on a Marathon. The go-to has been the Adios for years... Sub2 didnt really pan out... now we'll see this new model.
If you had run in the Sen (and in the now discounted sister shoe Ren) you would know that is a 10k shoe at best. The grip of those little lugs is truly phenomenal but the shoe doesnt have that much cushioning. Ideal for track and 5k... and for the elite up to 10k....
Shame you guys in US are not able to get these shoes anymore.... and you clutch at straws posting stuff
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot was talking about the VF, not the Takumi Sen.
Talking about VF 4%/Next% there, not any adidas shoe.
Can any one share a pdf to the complete article? The abstract is here:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30374945
They tested 12 "highly trained" males and 12 females during 4 visits with 4 different speeds. For males the speeds at each visit were "familiarization", 7:00 pace to just over ~5:22 pace, 6:00 pace, and a v02max test.
So basically they tested jogging down to marathon pace and roughly 3k pace. They did NOT test 10k or 5k paces. For the men the running economy results in the vaporfly ranged from + 0.50%(i.e. worse) to - 5.34%. I'm going to guess that the +0.5% worse number came from the v02max test.
TLDR: The study, singular, found that the vaporfly compared to the matumbo improved economy at paces slower than marathon pace (which we already knew), and reduced economy at v02max/3k pace.
They also tested the Adidas Adizero Adios 3 but did not report results comparing the Adidas Adizero Adios 3 to the matumbo. Wild guess: the Adios probably improved economy vs a track spike at marathon pace and slower too... I
t's also not suprising that the VF outperformed track spikes at all paces for the women. Most women except for track pros don't have the mechanics or lower leg strength to use track spikes efficiently.
itsallaboutbelief wrote:
Well in my opinion shoes have differences obviously but all its really overhpyed. The biggest thing is that people really belief in the vaporfly or next and really belief they can run faster with them. Great marketing by nike. And belief is very very powerful so you will actually see better times.
shoes make very very little difference. yes, it's ok when professional runners care.
but it amazes me when every hobby jogger thinks he needs such "next generation" shoes and pays hundred of $$$ for his all running gear.
in the end no one gives a sh*i if some john doe runner runs his 10k in 36:21 or 36:32
that swoosh life wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to send the link. Unfortunately, that's ONE arbitrary evaluation using 9 people in a completely uncontrolled environment and another using 4x5 minutes sessions with an unknown number of participants. Neither state any correlation of a specific 3k distance either. Was there a part referring to that I perhaps missed? As a side note, I would have loved to have seen the portion where the subjects ran on the treadmill in spikes. Epic.
definitely post any studies or evidence to the contrary. or just continue to poke holes in the only evidence and studies that are actually available. your call!
Can someone correct me if I'm wrong but the Takumi Sen 5 (this version) isn't available in the US isn't it?
LRCers really liked the Takumi Sen 3 but I don't think the next two versions have even been for sale in the US. Am I wrong?
Correct. Unfortunately.
Nick Willis won the fifth Ave mile in a pair of old takumi sen 2s. Robby Andrews is in Flag doing sessions in an old pair.
The mass media LRC generates though, Takumi will surely be brought to the states in a full size run up to 14 so "TheJeff" can try.
Yeah, theres nothing all that magical about the Takumi Sen. I had some of the version 3 and they were nice, but not a ton different from the Adios. All adidas are great really.. just takes a great runner to beat the WR. He could have been running in the Adios 1 and probably would have run the same time.
masaletti wrote:
itsallaboutbelief wrote:
Well in my opinion shoes have differences obviously but all its really overhpyed. The biggest thing is that people really belief in the vaporfly or next and really belief they can run faster with them. Great marketing by nike. And belief is very very powerful so you will actually see better times.
shoes make very very little difference. yes, it's ok when professional runners care.
but it amazes me when every hobby jogger thinks he needs such "next generation" shoes and pays hundred of $$$ for his all running gear.
in the end no one gives a sh*i if some john doe runner runs his 10k in 36:21 or 36:32
Actually, the John Doe runner most likely gives one which is why he'd pony up the money.
Wildhorse wrote:
https://images.app.goo.gl/qSZaXkyzBuMmKDzv9
This guy looks pretty old ? not sure if the orange shoes are adidas though.