It's official: Mary Cain's next race is at Dr. Sander Invite vs current high school star Katelyn Tuohy

birdbeard wrote:

Les wrote:

Good to see her out there, but that could be embarrassing for Cain if the former teenage prodigy loses to the current teenage prodigy.

She already got smoked by Tuohy last month. Also Tuohy’s HS career blows Mary’s (and everyone else’s) out of the water.

Maybe her XC career but her track career isn’t anywhere within a light year of Cain’s.

the a truth wrote:

birdbeard wrote:

She already got smoked by Tuohy last month. Also Tuohy’s HS career blows Mary’s (and everyone else’s) out of the water.

Maybe her XC career but her track career isn’t anywhere within a light year of Cain’s.

Different events, but Tuohy does hold 3 hs track records.

Fasttuohy wrote:

the a truth wrote:

Maybe her XC career but her track career isn’t anywhere within a light year of Cain’s.

Different events, but Tuohy does hold 3 hs track records.

Two of which Cain has run 9+ seconds faster (over the mile) and 13 seconds faster (over 3200, converting her 9:38 2 mile to 3200). She also ran 15:45 not seriously so pretty close to Tuohy. Plus the 8:58 3000 to win World Juniors and a sub-2 800. This isn’t close.

If her story is anywhere near accurate, it seems like Mary Cain probably has a fairly good point about there being more women involved at the highest levels of professional and collegiate running. I don't understand how you can hear someone's account of being verbally and physically abused by older men as a teenage girl and then conclude they are being a whiny sjw when they seek to change the system which created an environment for that abuse.

mary is a girl who CHOSE to go to salazar. just like every woman that is out there now will choose to go to the coach who they think will make them the best. if there are women out there getting results, people will go to them. you can't just make that happen. and once again, mary is currently being coached by another man.

For whatever reason, women are just not as interested in getting into coaching. at every single level.

high school xc coach wrote:

mary is a girl who CHOSE to go to salazar. just like every woman that is out there now will choose to go to the coach who they think will make them the best. if there are women out there getting results, people will go to them. you can't just make that happen. and once again, mary is currently being coached by another man.

For whatever reason, women are just not as interested in getting into coaching. at every single level.

Even Jordan refers to Paula as merely a guidance figure rather than a coach

This is a fairly absurd argument in several ways.

It appears that you do not contest any of Cain's accusations towards Salazar and the NOP as a basis for your view. Instead your basis is that Mary Cain chose to be coached by Salazar?

Cain choosing to be coached by Salazar does not give Salazar the green light to be abusive. Choosing to marry someone does not give the other person the right to be abusive towards you. More generally speaking, choosing to associate with another human being does not give that human being the right to behave abusively towards you. If that is something you believe then I feel very sorry for the students you coach if you are indeed a coach.

Of course women are not going to magically appear out of nowhere as coaches. You say "for whatever reason" women are not interested in getting into coaching. It appears that Cain's story presents a fairly good reason why that might be the case!

There is plenty of evidence that people do not perceive women to be as effective coaches across sports because they are not as fast as men. This is almost certainly not the case. Unconscious bias leads people to make decisions, which are not necessarily rational.

Between a former female olympic marathon champion and a former male olympic marathon champion, the vast majority of men and many women would probably prefer to be coached by the man even if there is evidence to suggest that the woman is the superior coach.

These types of behavioral biases are persistent and create systems and feedback loops, which leads to the kind of toxicity that Cain described in her NYT op-ed. Add on top of that to the fact that the men who are at the top of the sport at all levels won't want to give up their spot and women are going to have a tough time breaking in even if they do show interest.

Of course that toxicity won't be solved overnight. Of course women are not going to suddenly make up half of all coaches. But it seems clear that in order for this toxicity to be solved, women will have to have a substantial say in the shaping of this sport.

I applaud Mary's efforts to make running an honest sport in this country that we can be all be proud of from the pros to the high school jv squad.

It's not like Salazar or anyone else at the top of the sport is doing much to systematically improve the ethical practices for running in this country.

Agree

Actually it is pretty close

If you consider Tuohy is going to be a 3K 5K 10K Runner, while Cain's best distances were the shorter ones but she obviously had the ability to run great times through 2 miles

Anyway Tuohy smart for not trying to overdo things. She's already gotten to the point of being a top NCAA a runner TimeWise. So I think she's smart for just taking it slow building a good base and staying healthy.

im not gonna read the wall of text. im not saying salazar wasn't an a-hole. a lot of good (great) coaches are. im saying you don't get to just plug women into these roles. coaches work their way into positions and are chosen by people who think they can make them better. if women coaches are making their runners better, this will just happen. and chances are those women coaches will be just as harsh.

and again, women show less interest in coaching at EVERY SINGLE LEVEL. For whatever reason, they do not share the same interest as their male counterparts in grinding out 80 hours of whatever minutiae that high level coaching entails.

Bullet_Proof wrote:

colorunner123 wrote:

I think we are paying a bit too much attention to Mary Cain. At this point she is basically a good hobby jogger.

Mary Cain wont run anything spectacular ever again. Too focused on changing the track and field system to have "women in power"

It takes a lot of negative energy to concentrate on whiny social jutice - energy which she will need if she wishes to return to her elite level of running.

+1

You should read the wall of paragraphs. It is thoughtful, nuanced and informative.

donairs wrote:

You should read the wall of paragraphs. It is thoughtful, nuanced and informative.

it is thoughtful, opinionated and speculative.

high school xc coach wrote:

mary is a girl who CHOSE to go to salazar. just like every woman that is out there now will choose to go to the coach who they think will make them the best. if there are women out there getting results, people will go to them. you can't just make that happen. and once again, mary is currently being coached by another man.

For whatever reason, women are just not as interested in getting into coaching. at every single level.

No doubt what AlSal did was wrong BUT where were all the adult females that were part of the team that should have stood up for her - helped her. There is some level of blame they deserve as well.

As for her upcoming race against Tuohy? Would not shock me if he DNF's being that she might be 20+ sec back in the later stages of the race

Lots of keyboard warrior jerks in here today. God's luck MC and I hope you have a good race, meeting whatever goals you've set.

B(rit) S(peares) toxic wrote:

Lots of keyboard warrior jerks in here today. God's luck MC and I hope you have a good race, meeting whatever goals you've set.

I am 100% truly rooting for Mary to be a success. I can just do without the dose of SJW wokeness. I think that what happened is way more nuanced than the current victim/bully narrative that is out there. Either way, I will always root for her to return to form, or perhaps even surpass it.

hhsrunner32 wrote:

Bullet_Proof wrote:

Mary Cain wont run anything spectacular ever again. Too focused on changing the track and field system to have "women in power"

It takes a lot of negative energy to concentrate on whiny social jutice - energy which she will need if she wishes to return to her elite level of running.

+1

Dumbest drivel I’ve seen in a while.

B(rit) S(peares) toxic wrote:

hhsrunner32 wrote:

+1

Dumbest drivel I’ve seen in a while.

All she did was speak on her experience with salazar. She is obviously trying to run fast and is on the right track currently.