SalazarSalazarSalazar wrote:
she just shamed and murdered the reputation of Alberto Salazar. The man lived for this sport and now has been outcast by us because we all jumped on the bandwagon that Mary drove.
Her allegations came out after he had already been banned from the sport, and after years of much of the running community being suspicious of him and his methods. You've lost your mind if you think her allegations are anything more than the nail in the coffin. Good riddance
It is perfectly acceptable to publicly tell every male basketball and football player that they need to put weight on. It is odd that obesity is the main health concern in the US but we can encourage people to gain weight. It is almost impossibke to be underweight but we can't tell anyone that they should lose weight. Cain is thin as compared to the average woman. But even she wouldn't have been considered to be thin 75 years ago.
How can you run and own a track website and be this much out of touch? The poster who stated that sub 10 would be a good start is spot on. Look for around 9:45.[/quote]
What do you say now big shot?
Sub 9:30 excellent result for the young lady and I wish her TRULY nothing but the best in her comeback but wish she let her running do the talking and keep all other distraction in their proper place.
Pure Cain Sugar wrote:
Losing a few pounds would greatly improve her overall chancesof making it to the Olympics
I'm sure this will get deleted but, it shouldn't. I don't know why she gets special treatment. I see comments about Tom Brady being old, fat, washed up and Colin Kapernick being all manner of horrible things. Nick Symmond's weight is a popular theme and a myriad of other negative comments about other professional athletes are allowed. Why does Mary Cain, a grown ass woman and professional athlete, get coddled like a baby? If this is deleted I don't ever want to see another comment about any other athlete being out of shape or needing to lose a few pounds.
After Leah O'Connor's instagram comments about the forums we had an internal discussion if we even should ever allow someone's body to be discussed on LetsRun or whether we should have a separate standard for men and women.
I don't think we ever had the debate on here. Our internal thinking was as long as it is done respectfully and related to performance then allow the conversation. I think I'll open up that conversation now in a different thread that I'll start shortly and link here.
Some would say it's unncessary.
Nats1931 wrote:
Wow. You have achieved something there. At first, I thought it must be a feeble attempt at humor.
Then I realized that your were intentionally making a “negative comment” about Mary Cain in the guise of some sort of principled defense of other athletes who have to suffer negative comments on these boards without any compassion or empathy. Good for you: an equal opportunity bully.
It is a relief to know there is someone here willing to step up and bully a “grown ass woman” when no one else appears to have the courage.
Or is it the hypocrisy that bothers you? Some unjust double-standard? Either way, your judgment that vicious invective is an acceptable way to make your point speaks volumes.
Once again I'm going to start another thread on the topic of discussing someone's weight/appearance in another thread, but I am curious to know how the post above is bullying or vicious? If someone says I need to gain or lose weight to race faster I don't see how that is bullying in general.
But also one thing I hadn't really thought about now about LetsRun than other social media platforms, is on LetsRun there isn't a direct one to on relationship with the person. Mary Cain is not on here on this thread. Granted I guess she could come on here and read it if she wanted, but if I tell Tom Brady something to his his face or even direct it at him on twitter I think that is different if I tell my friend something about Tom Brady or in this case post it on a forum. The person in question here is one further degree removed, although in the running world, a lot of the conversation does get centered on LetsRun which perhaps makes how we deal with the comments more important.
Real Lyfe Nobodee wrote:
To everyone saying she needs to lose weight: stop it.
I've coached collegiate women who had eating disorders and pushed it too far. The recovery from that is a long, gradual process. For the few who can come back from it, they always work on gaining weight first before even attempting running again. Many times, doctors won't let them run again until they get their periods for many months in a row. That requires gaining a good amount of weight.
From here, no focus should be on weight. It's about getting the nutrients you need, eating whatever you want, whenever you want, and trusting that your body will do the adjusting it needs to do. Simply training like an elite and eating good foods is MORE than enough. I'd imagine she is not training nearly as hard as before, but it slowly increasing intensity.
Mary will keep making a comeback if she can keep this patience up. She is on track to have a longer career, compared to if she tried to come back too quickly into full training OR tried to lose weight.
I'll say it again: every telling her to lose weight, STOP IT. This a much more fragile situation than someone who has never been harmed by trying to get too lean.
I understand your point. However, I think if we allow civil conversations then we get people like yourself coming on here and say "the focus isn't on weight it's on nutrition." We get a more complete discussion instead of pretending that weight, food, etc are very big issues and problems in the sport. Now you could argue this could easily be done without mentioning Mary Cain and I get that but if it's done civilly why not? Mary never sees this discussion unless she actively tries to find it. It's not like people are tweeting at her directly saying this. There is one more degree of separation than other platforms.
I've had a person email me and say LetsRun helped save her life because we allowed a discussion about a runner being too skinny. That is super powerful. So we can't pretend the debate on this is all one sided and I think sometimes concrete examples are more illustrative than abstract concepts. People saying "give her a change to get in shape" and not focus on weight I think can be very helpful.
VIPAM wrote:
Sub 9:30 excellent result for the young lady and I wish her TRULY nothing but the best in her comeback but wish she let her running do the talking and keep all other distraction in their proper place.
I think the only people talking is us on the forum lol. She definitely can make a comeback if everything is perfect. Knowing a bit about her range I suspect she could get down to 16:00 shape ( based on people speculating shes in 16:30 shape) in a month or two and really focus on speed and throw down a solid 1500m and a great 800.
I kind of can't believe -- but honestly should not be surprised -- that after everything she's been through and bravely shared with the world that she runs one track race and immediately people are talking about her weight. Was anyone paying attention to what she said?
Here is the general thread I said I was going to start: https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9785671
Being exiled for pushing grey area boundaries and being exiled for a fat shaming pig are totally different but I know what you are saying. I just think we are ending this mans life based off 99 % her side of the story. Nothing that she has quoted of Salazar in interviews sounded irrational for a world class coach, mostly just real life issues that a pro running coach unfortunately has to deal with. I keep waiting for her to do some dramatic interview with her story telling and evil Salazar slytheran yelling and screaming repulsively but every time I listen to one it seems like Salazar was just a hard, driven coach....at worst he was real and didn’t sugar coat things like so many people need today. 18 year olds are emotional and hard truth doesn’t always sit well. I am equally rooting for her comeback, I just wish it wasn’t at the expense of another mans life.
Anyone know what kinds of spikes she was wearing? Just wondering whether or not she is boycotting Nike in her apparell.
Just because a person is in the public eye doesn't mean all comments and criticisms are warranted, what may help one person TRULY CAN BE THE STRAW THAT BREAKS the camel's back for another and none of us should be allowed to spread the possible final dagger ESPECIALLY when most posters (NOT ALL) on this site lately speak to shock, harm, and be against the grain.
CONGRATULATIONS Mary Cain on a nice comeback performance and here's to hoping you get back to whatever your true potential holds for you and not for anyone else but for YOURSELF!
Once you've been in really good shape once it's easier to get there again. I could totally see her getting down to sub 9:10 indoors in February for the 3k... And then outdoors improve a little bit more and run under 15:20. Her and the coach stating she hadn't done anything substantial at that 3k pace shows that they haven't been hammering hard intervals yet, still just building up. I wouldn't be shocked at all to see her in Eugene this summer. But I don't think she'll be a contender while she's there as we've got too many 4 flat and better 1500 runners and 15 flat and under 5k runners.
Once you've been somewhere wrote:
Once you've been in really good shape once it's easier to get there again. I could totally see her getting down to sub 9:10 indoors in February for the 3k... And then outdoors improve a little bit more and run under 15:20. Her and the coach stating she hadn't done anything substantial at that 3k pace shows that they haven't been hammering hard intervals yet, still just building up. I wouldn't be shocked at all to see her in Eugene this summer. But I don't think she'll be a contender while she's there as we've got too many 4 flat and better 1500 runners and 15 flat and under 5k runners.
15:20 seems like a reach. I could see 15:40s and then competing in the 800/1500. If she loses 5-10 lbs as well, she definitely can compete. That would take another 20-30s off her 5k. She could definitely drop a good 1500 or 800 with that fitness.
More likely, she will come down to 16 or high 15s this Spring.
One question no one is really discussing is why is she running 4 milers and 3ks? Her best event was the mile and perhaps even the 800m. I would think she’d be doing shorter races in the indoor season instead of longer.
Dwightarm wrote:
One question no one is really discussing is why is she running 4 milers and 3ks? Her best event was the mile and perhaps even the 800m. I would think she’d be doing shorter races in the indoor season instead of longer.
My reaction to her efforts is it's smart to start at the higher distances, but if she still has the speed she once had come summer she might be in a position to run a decent (but not great) 800.
I wish her good health and best results.
Nice run!
I feel inspired, am going to the track for a workout. Go Mary! Stay healthy.
Once you've been somewhere wrote:
Once you've been in really good shape once it's easier to get there again. I could totally see her getting down to sub 9:10 indoors in February for the 3k... And then outdoors improve a little bit more and run under 15:20. Her and the coach stating she hadn't done anything substantial at that 3k pace shows that they haven't been hammering hard intervals yet, still just building up. I wouldn't be shocked at all to see her in Eugene this summer. But I don't think she'll be a contender while she's there as we've got too many 4 flat and better 1500 runners and 15 flat and under 5k runners.
15:20 seems like a reach. I could see 15:40s and then competing in the 800/1500. If she loses 5-10 lbs as well, she definitely can compete. That would take another 20-30s off her 5k. She could definitely drop a good 1500 or 800 with that fitness.
More likely, she will come down to 16 or high 15s this Spring. Maybe she can make the trials and not compete.
I agree.
Knowing that she is coming back from a series of injuries, and "distress" with her previous training situation, it's positive just to see that she is happy and doing some training and racing again.
It's not like she has announced any specific goals, accepted undeserved appearance money, or taken a more deserving runner's spot in a big race. She has run a couple of low key races, where she paid the entrance fee, and now entered an "all comers" track meet to get in a 3k time trial.
I hope she continues to be patient and does eventually return to her peak form, but if she doesn't, that's not my concern and she can still enjoy running. Positive is 21 minutes for 4 miles and a 9:25 3k and being happy and healthy is not a terrible place to start from.
Dwightarm wrote:
One question no one is really discussing is why is she running 4 milers and 3ks? Her best event was the mile and perhaps even the 800m. I would think she’d be doing shorter races in the indoor season instead of longer.
I can think of two reasons:
1) to start with distances where she would not always immediately be compared and compare herself to her past best achievements and
2) to start with longer, slower races as this seems easier from basic winter training
RIP: D3 All-American Frank Csorba - who ran 13:56 in March - dead
RENATO can you talk about the preparation of Emile Cairess 2:06
Rest in Peace Adrian Lehmann - 2:11 Swiss marathoner. Dies of heart attack.
I think Letesenbet Gidey might be trying to break 14 this Saturday
Running for Bowerman Track Club used to be cool now its embarrassing