Sub 2h30 Spring Marathon - The Quest For Amateur Glory Rides Again!

Progression is extremely fast. I told before on this forum, that I had 3 years cycle training as a amateur. Max power what I got is 320 FTP. But I did a lot of base building (zone 1,2). Total hours on cycling is about 1000 hours. During base building on cycling I did sometimes 30-35 hours per week in zone 1,2 only. And of course, I had lucky to have in my place good mountains. Without mountains it is hard to build muscles.

Same in running, I understood, gradient less than 1% all of your running - is nothing, you need more. Running on track with 0% is not fully effective for your fast development, need hills, constantly.

Artur Lidyard no have such big success when he moved from New Zeeland (hilly terrain) to Europe (flat) and coached there. Hills is the one of the important key.

By myself, I noticed this when I moved from Tenerife (1%+) to Valencia (0.3% avg gradient), performance dropped, and than I back to my home in Russia, where again all my runs were at 1.0% and more gradient, I noticed again increasing performance even at base building without workouts. Same I noticed now, when I am training on treadmill, I use incline 1%, but as you know vessel has a trim... and when I checked by cellphone inclinometer how much real incline, I was shocked - it was 2.2-3.0%, sometimes 3.5% - and so huge and fast progress as a results. So, all this 4 months during running on treadmill I did not know, but I was trained at a huge gradient at all runs (easy+workouts).

Another thing: treadmill is super effective pacemaker. Ok, if you have a good partner on land which is running faster with you, he can be your ideal pacemaker, without pacemaker also is hard to keep good progression. I am starting to think about one good idea from our forum, idea to use drone as a pacemaker! Or otherwise during workouts on land you need to use treadmill as well, as a pacemaker (fast treadmill up to 25 km/h).

Another issues:

0) Cardiovascular system is the best trainable during ski (maximum vertical height between working muscles + working hands)

1) Cardiovascular system is good trainable during running (maximum vertical height between working muscles and heart)

2) During cycling to train heart you need more hours than running and ski (vertical Height between working muscles and heart less than when you are stand, because you seat on the saddle)

3) During swimming cardiovascular system is not trainable (there is no vertical height between working muscles and heart, you are horizontal: heart and muscles are on same level)

Monday

AM: 5 easy

PM: 9 easy

Tuesday

AM: 5 easy

PM: 10 easy

Wednesday

PM: 14.3 easy

Thursday

AM: 5 easy

PM: 10.1 Fartlekish

Friday

AM: 4 easy

PM: 10.2 easyish

Saturday

AM: 12

PM: 5

Sunday

Long Run workout 10 miles easy 10 miles hard.

Total: 110 miles

Solid week of training. Didn't do any workouts during the week because I was pretty beat up from the race and 20 mile long run the previous week. Just tried to get in a bunch of mileage. On Thursday I was at a cross country meet and I kind of did a fartlek while I was going to different spots on the course to cheer. Wasn't very difficult though, probably only 2 miles of hard running. On Friday I was asked to pace for a 2 mile time trial so I ran a mile in 4:50 and then finished the rest of my run. The main workout of the week was the long run. From the race last weekend I felt like I was in good fitness for shorter distances but I really didn't know how my body would be able to hold up for the 26 miles of the marathon. We did the first 10 miles at an easyish pace averaging right around 6:30 per mile. The second half I hammered and was able to average just over 5:30 for the final 10 miles and finished with a 5:22 mile. This workout gave me a lot of confidence with 5 weeks to go until the marathon.

great LR to do 10 at 6:30, 10 at 5:30. I'll say again, you'll be closer to 2:25 then 2:30.

M 9 + 4 double

T 11

W 12.5 w/ 4x4min LT, 4x2min 5k on dirt. 90sec/60sec recovery

Th off. too smoky.

F 15 with middle 8mi at 5:55/mi "moderate" but felt too close to MP

Sa 20mi trail run very slow and totally bonked. 3hr40min

Su 9 + 3 double

total 85 miles, over 5000' climbing.

Really need to stop joining friends for long trail runs and get down to more specific training. Friday's 8mi within 15mi was a little tough. was hoping for 5:50/mi and was running at that effort but only managed 5:55s. first workout at that effort this year, so no big deal.

gonna do a 6k xc TT on wednesday next week while trying to hit 95mi or so. Hopefully the smoke doesn't come back.

@Ganbatye strong training. You're absolute going to smash it.

I failed in my quest for amateur glory yesterday although I set out at 2.32-2.34 pace so it was never really on.

Finished in 2.34.54 with 1.16.10/1.18.44 splits but it as strange race as was on a flat airfield of 10 laps with each lap having a strong tailwind and then headwind.

First half there was a group but on my own for 2nd half which means I think it was even effort split as I was on my own 2nd half battling wind (13mph/20mph gusts so not a super strong but an inhibitor as exposed course).

Really pleased with the result and my lrevious PB was 2.43 so this is a stepping stone to sub 2.30 glory!

Awesome work @Ultra Bear! That’s a time you can be mighty proud of. I hope you’re celebrating well. On towards 2:29. What’s your plan to get those five minutes off?

@RunningInEurope Thanks.

Plan is focused speed work with an aspirational aim of 15min 5k. Then build up the distances from there.

See how that goes. Might even do some teack sessions!

reed wrote:

M 9 + 4 double

T 11

W 12.5 w/ 4x4min LT, 4x2min 5k on dirt. 90sec/60sec recovery

Th off. too smoky.

F 15 with middle 8mi at 5:55/mi "moderate" but felt too close to MP

Sa 20mi trail run very slow and totally bonked. 3hr40min

Su 9 + 3 double

total 85 miles, over 5000' climbing.

Really need to stop joining friends for long trail runs and get down to more specific training. Friday's 8mi within 15mi was a little tough. was hoping for 5:50/mi and was running at that effort but only managed 5:55s. first workout at that effort this year, so no big deal.

gonna do a 6k xc TT on wednesday next week while trying to hit 95mi or so. Hopefully the smoke doesn't come back.

my week:

M 10 easy

T 7 easy

W 6k xc TT, 5:15/mi on dirt path, alone.

Th 9 + 5 double. feeling good

Fr 9 easy, feeling worse

Sa 13.1 pacing at my GMP for a friend trying to set PB. 18mi total

Su 13.5 easy

total 81 miles, 10.5hrs, 2000ft climbing

the xc time trial on wednesday went well. ran fairly even splits on a 2k loop course. probably could have continued for 8k at that effort even by myself. Not a big improvement over a couple months ago but this was an uncompetitive environment and hard to get excited about.

Saturday was basically 13.1mi at GMP for me. goal was 5:50/mi which is 76:30 or so and we were about on target for 6 miles then cut down from 5:50s to 5:45s to under 5:40. finished last 2 miles in about 5:30/mi which definitely was about my threshold effort. 75:50ish was the time but it wasn't a certified 13.1mi so we might've been faster. I'm confident that we ran about 5:43/mi effort resulting in about 5:47/mi actual GPS pace. wore my old original vaporflies which is the first time I've done a training run in them. I was testing Alphaflies for 2 months so these felt minimal at first. I'll be buying the Next% soon, hopefully. if anybody here has a source for some M10.5 (US size)new or used, let me know.

Don't have much of a plan for next week but I'm planning on a moderate long run on Sunday, probably over 20 miles and all under 7:00/mi.

I feel mostly recovered from my marathon (3.5 weeks ago). I ran a 10k race last Sunday in 34:34, half a minute slower than my PB. Was not great, not bad either. The winner ran under 30 minutes...

My hip still hurt a bit before the race, and hurt even more after the race. The strange thing is that running "slow" (that is, slower than MP) seems to actually help and not hurt. I can run 4:00/km just fine, but 3:30/km really leaves me in pain. So my plan is to just run a lot of mileage until December without any speed work (no intervals, no races, no sections at MP), and then start a build up to a spring marathon. If all goes well I'm confident I can get very close to 2:30 come March/April. I'll do the Pfitzinger Advanced Marathoning plan again.

nobody else training for time trials this fall? just me? okay then

Finally had a week of no weather-related excuses like smoke or heat.

M 12.5 easy

T 13 easy

W 11 w/ fartlek on hills

Th 11 easy

F 13.5 easy

Sa 10 (7+3 double)

Su 22 moderate long run, fast finish

total 94 miles, (12hrs), 3500' elevation gain.

wednesday was 5-4-3-2-1-0.5-5 minutes of fartlek. 5min all uphill, then 4-3-2-1-30sec on rolling up and downs, then 5min downhill at 4:50/mi to burn out the legs a bit. not a great workout really but I needed to run more hills but didn't want to just do hill repeats.

sunday the plan was to do 20-22 at about 6:30 pace and I figured that I would cut it down a bit if feeling okay. 6:25 felt like "all-day pace" so we stuck around there for 16 miles and then ran about 6:10, 6:00, 5:50, 5:45, 5:40 til miles 21. 1mi jog for 22, averaged 6:20 for the entire run. ate 3 gels and sipped water constantly, maybe drinking 25oz total.

good week overall, not super high quality workouts but good enough for me. Definitely in 2:30-2:31 shape right about now based on how 5:45s are feeling at the end of long runs.

“Time trials”

Figured I might jump in here for the hey of it. I got one coming up in 4 weeks. Sub 2:40 shape but not quite sub 2:30.

Some key workouts over the last few weeks:

10x1K @ 3:15 per k 90 sec jogging rest and 4x4 @ 4:40ish to close it out

20 1 on 1 off fartlek with a 5K “race” later that week (16:27 and hot as hell)

3x5k 17:50, 17:50, 16:23 (last one for fun) 4 min jog between sets (first 2 @ marathon pace)

Today did a 6 mile progression with 3 up 5 down (5:39 - 5:10) Fast finish on slate for this weekend.

Averaging mid 80’s per week and am 39.

Good thread, good read. Cheers.

I am building up towards the next marathon build-up... going to run one in spring 2021 (if possible).

Last week:

M easy 8k

T 26k @ 4:20/km

W easy 10k + 1h strength

T 31k undulating @ 4:08/km

F easy 10k

S easy 20k

S 29k @ 4:08/km

133k total (82mi).

To let my hip heal, I'm still avoiding anything faster than 3:30/km, so no racing for me (even though we have small races here). No pain during or after the runs.

My plan is to build up towards 160k(100mi) before December, and then start my marathon prep off of that. There's three marathons I'm shooting for: two on April 11th and one on April 18th. I hope one of them will happen.

burt reynolds mustache - you're much closer to 2:30 than 2:40.

10x1k at 3:15 with only 90sec seems pretty good, probably indicates holding 3:15s for 10k which is 32:30, which probably equates to 2:32ish.

I'll wait until sunday to post my week again but I should be at 100 miles for the first time since March 2019

M 10.3km (6.4 mi) @ 5:00/km (8:04/mi)

T 26k (16mi) @ 4:19/km (6:57/mi)

W 13k @ 4:51/km + 1h core

T 31k @ 4:04/km (19.3 mi @ 6:34/mi). Hilly course, felt really strong. Last two km's were at 3:52/km (6:14/mi)

F 18k (11mi) @ 4:52/km

S 11k easy

S 30k @ 4:15/km avg (6:50/mi)

All in all a good week, especially Thursday was really nice. 140k total (87mi). Still no speed work but steadily building that base. Aiming for 150k this week, and then probably taking a recovery week with a bit lower mileage.

M 7+7 double

T 10

W 15 w/ 60min fartlek avg 5:46/mi

Th 12

F 12+4

Sa 11+4, workout cut very short

Su 18 hoped for some tempo miles but bailed

total 100.1 miles, 12hrs 34min (7:30/mi avg pace, quicker pace for me due to more road miles)

first 100 mi week since Spring 2019. Felt totally fine until Saturday when I attempted 5x1k on the track. did a 3:09 then quit after 800m in 2:35 of the second repeat. just didn't have the legs, was hoping to run 3:07s. Thought I could salvage it by running hard for my 18 miler on Sunday but legs still felt bad so just went easy, and faded at the end when the group was doing only 6:30 pace. haven't been dropped in a while. sucks

Despite this week falling apart a bit, I'll do another big week this week. 106 would be my highest ever mileage and would put me at 300 miles for 3 weeks which would be a big milestone. If I succeed, I'll take a down week back to 85ish and just hold 90 for a couple more weeks.

Race day is in 6 weeks. Feeling like I'm in 2:31:00 shape based on a couple predictor workouts, such as this week's fartlek. the workout was 60min total, 2min float between everything. 2-3-4-5-6-6-5-4-3-2 (minutes). ranged from 5:15 to 5:43 pace depending on the interval. did it alone so I figure that with some competition I'd be in 2:30 shape. didn't seem hard enough to wreck my weekend but maybe I didn't refuel well enough.

I'm also at about 138 lbs which is a good training weight for me but it would be nice to race at 136 or so. Not really going to try to lose 2 lbs but I hope it happens naturally. that should give be an extra minute in a marathon.

Reed, thanks for the confidence boost. That fartlek workout looked strong and seems like you recovered from the bad workout pretty well. 6 weeks out is still a lot of time and with good weather, I don’t think it’s too far fetched to say you have a pretty good shot.

Time for the taper BRM!

I had a nice week of mostly easy running. On Friday and Saturday I took it extra slow (tried to see what it was like to run at under 150bpm). For the last few days I've had a bit of pain in my upper left quad, but it seems like something I can just run through.

M 5.5mi

T 10mi + 5.6mi

W 7mi + strength

T 19.3mi @ 6:55/mi (the fastest I've run this week)

F 12.5 mi

S 10mi

S 25mi @ 7:00/mi. Not too fast, but still tough.

Total 100mi. Next week I'll do a recovery week with a lot less volume (shooting for somewhere around 100k).

M 10+4 double

T 9+5 double

W 14 w/ 20x(1min on/1min off)

Th 11

F 10+5 double

Sa 20 w/ 3x5k + 3mi double

Su 15

total 106, 13hr16min. new record mileage for me.

October was 414mi and my last 3 weeks have averaged 100 (94, 100, 106).

Tuesday was an easy workout that didn't go well. Expected to be tired so hoped I could just hit 5:20ish pace, but was struggling to get under 5:30s. Almost seemed like my watch was wrong...but I guess that's bound to happen when running a weekly mileage record.

Saturday was not too tough, and I felt pretty good. Ran a hilly 5k loop so my grade-adjusted paces were 5:42, 5:37, 5:30. rest was a half mile jog to get water. very under control, wanted to run faster but this week isn't the time to crush anything. Need to stay healthy.

next week I'll back off but only to probably 90 miles. Don't want to back off so much that my motivation drops off, which happens to me during down weeks. One day off or one skipped double turns into three.

Hi,

What Marathon are you training for?

I’m looking to rub 2.30 around Jan-Feb...

Are there any in-person races to take place?

Thanks!!