Vaporfly - why are people against them?

IDIOTNOT wrote:

panzer dragoon wrote:

Pretty much this.

Proponents of the cheaterflys will claim that they're simply sophisticated running shoes. But this is incorrect -- they aren't running shoes at all! A running shoe provides cushioning, support, and traction. The work still needs to be done by the runner. A springy propulsion device is something entirely different. Anyone competing in these isn't actually running in an authentic fashion.

These two guys get it.

These three guys don't get it.

Im just being a jerk face. ? Everyone is right. These shoes are a big jump. But they are not stilts or springs though. Just better shoes.

Bouncier but somehow lighter and rigid with a high heel. A magic combination with a very small gain. 1-2 minutes over a 2hr race.

Until someone shaves away foam from the side of the midsole and shows the carbon plate acting like a spring with a slo-mo camera we should embrace this advancement.

Im for plates and superior foam, but im sure we're all against springs.... And no proof has come out that they are springs.

Lenny Leonard wrote:

There is a very vocal minority that is against them. There was a somewhat similar backlash against the Adios BOOST when they came out circa 2013 and guys like Kimetto and Mutai started running 2:03s regularly.

The price point is insignificant when you look at what the average person spends on their running each year between race entries, nutrition, apparel, accessories, travel, training groups, etc.

The only people who have any gripe are the athletes not sponsored by Nike. They will not be as peeved once their sponsor develops a competitive shoe.

Agreed. Very vocal. Very minority group. Have you touched a football receivers glove now? An elite hockey stick, baseball bat....But none of this torturous flaccid whining that goes on here about a topic you really are not informed on.

Not only is tech becoming increasing part of our lives and our bodies but soon genetic manipulation will further speed up the pointlessness of records in the sport. Track and road runners are too concerned with time and not racing.

Vaporflys are fun and running fast is fun. Seb Coe would agree make distance races faster and better races.

Here's a good podcast about the issue.

https://www.scienceofrunning.com/2019/10/episode-99-is-it-all-about-the-shoes.html?v=7516fd43adaaery

other

It's like in golf and other sports. The ball, clubhead, bat all have to be regulated to level the playing field. We now have the same issue in running, but only one company has the proven "special" product. Allow innovation but set limits is my 2cents worth.

The cork is not going to be put back into the bottle- just like all innovation we have seen the last 50 years that enhances the playing of sports or life in general.

What? It’s not one company. Hoka one one carbon x same thing but still an ounce heavier...new balance and other companies are coming out with their own prototypes. Actually did you listen to their podcast? It’s ridiculous and non objective. They go in a rants about how it’s the only legal peds which is ridiculous for people that “go off of science”. I already posted about this for you fart heads.

I love these threads. I own a pair and want to race in them.

Evolve your sport or die. We aren't going back to cinder tracks and wooden golf clubs. NBA isnt wearing Chucks Taylor's anymore.

Well said Bob!

those against them are mostly poor people who can't afford to shell out that sort of money on racing shoes.

...or older people whose days of running PR's are well and truly behind them and are pissed that their once admired times are becoming more and more pedestrian.

I am not really against them.

There is a limit. If something like what Pistorius wore, or like these

http://www.skyrunnerstilts.com/

became the norm, I would want some restrictions.

These just seem like optimized design and foam that require a carbon plate to support them.

I did not like the Newtons before this, either. They felt ingenuine.

Shoes are meant to protect your feet and maybe provide some stability. then, stay light and out of the way. These change what you are doing from running to using the shoes like a trick. Bicycles provide no external propulsion, either. How soon until Nike releases Vaporfly Wheels where you are essentially just pedalling a bicycle?

I'm old and poor, and I love my Vaporflies. After one race, I'm starting to think that my race times might not go off a cliff any day now. Some of the best money I ever spent.

People, the carbon plate isn't the spring. Carbon fiber can act like a spring, but a study found that it wasn't storing much energy in the Vaporfly. It's the foam acting as a spring, by storing and releasing energy, just like the Boost or EVA in your current running shoes act as springs. And that's OK.

I have no fear of a 40 cm "Vaporfly 100%" with 13 spring plates. The problem with high stack shoes is they're heavy, and adding weight to a marathon racing shoe is not going to be a recipe for success. Racing flats do everything they can to shave off fractions of an ounce; do you think doubling the weight of the Vaporfly is going to result in faster times? The Vaporflies achieve an amazing trade-off between weight, cushion, and stack height, but they're already up against the limits of what's possible in terms of weight and stability.

If the IAAF wants to limit stack height, Nike won't object. They can already fit the Vaporfly's midsole into the same size package of your average Hoka (30-37 mm). They could probably fit it into the same size as a Brooks Glycerin (32 mm) if they had to.

Runtodafridge wrote:

Fjfug wrote:

For me, personally, it's because running is such a pure thing that any artificial help kind of spoils it for me. I wear shoes to protect my feet.

But if others wear them for performance, then it's their choice.

Putting anything on your feet is ‘artificial’.....don’t be a hypocrite, run barefoot.

Cute attempt.

You wouldn't say that if you saw the surfaces I run on.

0/20

Because we live in the age of outrage with platforms that allow for it to seem like there is a lot of people wanting something. And then you find yourself on a niche website like this one and it seems to have turned it into its mission to have the hottest of take about these shoes.

I thought the fact that zoom fly also has carbon plate, and is not considered having a very big advantage should have put the "carbon plate works as a spring" theory to rest long time ago.

I have the Flyknit and the 4%

Its all in the foam. The Flyknit has the plate and not the foam. Its a very stable shoe for its weight.

That is the key to the plate. For such a minimal shoe, its amazingly stable for your foot to hold its mechanics and not crush down like being barefoot.

Well said sir

Zoom fly also has carbon plate wrote:

I thought the fact that zoom fly also has carbon plate, and is not considered having a very big advantage should have put the "carbon plate works as a spring" theory to rest long time ago.

This. Many times over.

They are like the blades that can transform an average runner into a world class runner. Good runners become very good. Great runners become world beaters.

Artificial aid wrote:

They are like the blades that can transform an average runner into a world class runner. Good runners become very good. Great runners become world beaters.

It is well understood that the carbon fibre does not act like a prosthetic blade in the 4% or Next%. It might do in the alphafly.