In a few years time the Brexiteers might be the biggest fans of the EU.
The EU is the biggest peace project on earth. Never in history was such a long period of peace in Europe. But I can see that people who have never lived in war, take that for granted because they don't know better.
Anyway in a few days time the new reality starts for the UK. We will see, what was written on a red bus and said by politicians, will be happening or not. From what I have learned over the last couple of years about the EU is, that the Brexiteers probably will be hugely disappointed what will happen in the next couple of year. But now they can't use the EU as a scapegoat anymore, now it's their own totally self chosen path. Not that joining the EU was not a self chosen decision.
Jonathan Gault, this is for for you. Do you consider your native Britain to be an "international laughing stock?"
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The EU is an attempt by people to keep stupid politicians from starting wars.
Which worked. -
Ultramarkus wrote:
In a few years time the Brexiteers might be the biggest fans of the EU.
The EU is the biggest peace project on earth. Never in history was such a long period of peace in Europe. But I can see that people who have never lived in war, take that for granted because they don't know better.
This is pure propaganda of the worst kind!
Nuclear weapons have reduced the probability of World War 3 to practically zero percent.
Do you honestly believe that the ideology of lunatics like Adolph Hitler and his ilk has magically disappeared?
Do you honestly believe that nutcases no longer dream about conquering foreign lands?
Do you honestly believe that morons no longer lust for power?
You are incredibly naive.
Bullies always pick on the weak and not the strong. In a world of nuclear weapons, there are no more weaklings to pick on.
Bullies have not changed their views; they are just sh!t scared of getting the [email protected] kicked out of them.
This is the reality of the modern world. Stop living in a fantasy world! -
Nuclear weapons are out of fashion for a long time.
Luckily Hitler is history and we learned a lot from it. The EU is actually one of the positive outcomes.
"Do you honestly believe that nutcases no longer dream about conquering foreign lands? Do you honestly believe that morons no longer lust for power?"
Well, there is Trump.
If there is a new war fare it is hacking and influencing social media. Brexit is one of the results.
We have to see how it will turn out.
Next year we know more. -
The price for the UK being a sovereign country is a minimal increase in friction in EU trade.
Brexiteers believe that the transaction is worth it, and Remoaners do not.
The Brexiteers are in charge of the negotiations now, so it does not really matter what Remoaners think.
There is a small probability that the EU will start a trade war with the UK, but no one realistically expects this.
There will be a small increase in friction in EU trade, but this is of no great consequence for the UK or the EU. -
1000 wrote:
The price for the UK being a sovereign country is a minimal increase in friction in EU trade.
Brexiteers believe that the transaction is worth it, and Remoaners do not.
The Brexiteers are in charge of the negotiations now, so it does not really matter what Remoaners think.
There is a small probability that the EU will start a trade war with the UK, but no one realistically expects this.
There will be a small increase in friction in EU trade, but this is of no great consequence for the UK or the EU.
The UK was always a sovereign country. That is one of the myths that it wasn't.
The Brexiteers are not in charge of the negotiations alone. They have to negotiate with the EU and they have to do it within 11 month. Their self assigned time frame.
It's also not just about frictions in trade. There are 5000 other things which have to be negotiated like Interpol or air traffic control for example. Brexit was always about a single issue: Immigration. The EU is about 5000 things.
But the UK will find that out shortly. -
Ultramarkus wrote:
The UK was always a sovereign country. That is one of the myths that it wasn't.
"Federalisation of the European Union is the proposed institutional process by which the European Union (EU) is transformed from an informal confederation (a union of sovereign states) towards a federation (a single federal state with a central government, consisting of a number of partially self-governing federated states). There is ongoing discussion about the extent to which the EU has already become a federation over the course of decades, and more importantly, to what degree it should continue to evolve into a federalist direction." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalisation_of_the_European_Union
Ultramarkus wrote:
Brexit was always about a single issue: Immigration
The case for keeping freedom of movement with the pre-2005 EU and EFTA nations - https://brexitcentral.com/case-keeping-freedom-movement-pre-2005-eu-efta-nations/ -
Ultramarkus wrote:
They have to negotiate with the EU and they have to do it within 11 month. Their self assigned time frame.
- https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1229657/BBC-news-Laura-Kuenssberg-Brexit-trade-deal-EU-warning-von-der-Leyen-Boris-Johnson-latest
Ms Kuenssberg told BBC podcast Brexitcast: "But It wouldn’t have gone without notice in Westminster that the EU side keep on criticising the timetable. "But they also signed up to it – it’s their deadline, too."
The declaration states: "In setting out the framework of the future relationship between the Union and the United Kingdom, this declaration confirms (...) that it is the clear intent of both Parties to develop in good faith agreements giving effect to this relationship and to begin the formal process of negotiations as soon as possible after the United Kingdom's withdrawal from the Union, such that they can come into force by the end of 2020." -
jesseriley wrote:
Not to mention that the younger generation who didn’t want brexit will be stuck with the consequences.
The first referendum on the "EU" was in 1975, and "youngsters" overwhelmingly voted to join the "EU".
The second EU referendum was 41 years later in 2016, and those "youngsters" become senior citizens that overwhelmingly voted to leave the EU. -
It always helps if you can read:
Wikipedia says it right there:
Present situation
The European Union (EU) is not legally (de jure) a federation, although various academics have argued that it contains some federal characteristics.
And I wouldn't trust anything from the express.co.uk
Meanwhile in the real news:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/19/brexit-uk-trade-deal-china-us-compromise -
1000 & roscoe (possibly the same russian troll) are wearing their putin T-shirts (boys size M) while they peck away indoors in St Petersburg.
Better you than me, comrade! -
Ultramarkus wrote:
An easy trade deal with Canada took 7 or 8 years. No idea why the UK thinks they can do it in a couple of month. And don't blame me for the bad news. I am just repeating what I heard from some of the trade experts.
In effect the UK, as members of the EU for 41 years, already has an enormous and highly complicated FTA with the EU. The new FTA between the UK and the EU is predominantly a "copy and paste" job.
The Canada and EU FTA was from scratch. -
jesseriley wrote:
1000 & roscoe (possibly the same russian troll) are wearing their putin T-shirts (boys size M) while they peck away indoors in St Petersburg.
Better you than me, comrade!
IT'S THE RUSSIANS! IT'S THE RUSSIANS! IT'S THE RUSSIANS! IT'S THE RUSSIANS!
I'M NOT CRAZY! IT'S THE [email protected] RUSSIANS! -
1000 wrote:
Ultramarkus wrote:
An easy trade deal with Canada took 7 or 8 years. No idea why the UK thinks they can do it in a couple of month. And don't blame me for the bad news. I am just repeating what I heard from some of the trade experts.
In effect the UK, as members of the EU for 41 years, already has an enormous and highly complicated FTA with the EU. The new FTA between the UK and the EU is predominantly a "copy and paste" job.
The Canada and EU FTA was from scratch.
Nope not at all.
There won't be any copy and pasting if you can't agree on the basics. One of the most important issues for the EU is, to protect their borders, so that the free trade can happen inside them. The Ireland/ Norther Ireland border is a problem. A problem also for the UK since they will violate the Good Friday agreement which might have big consequences for a US trade deal.
The EU also needs to protect all kinds of standards. So no, there won't be any copy and pasting.
It will be hard negotiations and the UK is standing on the wall with nowhere to go and a silly self imposed time limit. -
Here is it a little better explained:
https://www.ft.com/content/eef85710-3797-11ea-a6d3-9a26f8c3cba4 -
Ultramarkus wrote:
It always helps if you can read:
Wikipedia says it right there:
Present situation
The European Union (EU) is not legally (de jure) a federation, although various academics have argued that it contains some federal characteristics.
The UK joined the "EU" in 1973, and since then the EU has become far closer to a federal state.
All major players in the EU want a federal state, but will not always admit to this.
The time gap between the two EU referendums was 41 years. It is reasonable for Brexiteers to assume that if Remain had won the 2016 EU Referendum, then the third EU referendum would occur 40 odd years after the second or never.
If Remain had won the 2016 EU referendum, then the Federalisation of the European Union would have been dramatically accelerated. -
Ultramarkus wrote:
The Ireland/ Norther Ireland border is a problem. A problem also for the UK since they will violate the Good Friday agreement which might have big consequences for a US trade deal.
The EU also needs to protect all kinds of standards. So no, there won't be any copy and pasting.
It will be hard negotiations and the UK is standing on the wall with nowhere to go and a silly self imposed time limit.
The Republic of Ireland/Northern Ireland border is a non issue, unless you are a nutcase, and most EU supporters are nuts.
The island of Ireland has a gigantic natural border between itself and the island of Great Britain.
This means that Northern Ireland can have a different immigration policy to Great Britain. Northern Ireland wants no checks at the ROI/NI border for people from the EU and from the rest of the world. This is how the current ROI/NI border works. This is unique, and this will remain after Brexit because Northern Ireland wants this.
The more comprehensive the FTA between the UK and the EU, then the less checks there will need to be, and all these checks will be a done away from the border.
The Good Friday Agreement (GFA) or Belfast Agreement has nothing to do with Brexit. This is pure nonsense. The myth is so outrageous and so obnoxious that only a Remainer could claim it!
There will be a gigantic argument over "level playing field" rules with the EU, but the vast bulk of the FTA is straightforward. -
As somebody who grew up in Europe, it is impossible for me to think that all these sovereign countries would go away any time soon. Europe is culturally too different that that will happen anytime soon. (Next 100 years or more).
You can't compare the US with Europe in that matter at all. While there are some small differences between US states, overall they are all the same. There is probably more cultural difference from Northern France to their Mediterranean coast than from Alaska to Florida.
Actually the United Kingdom is a great example that this doesn't even work on that scale. -
The brexit bill passes, despite refusal of all 3 devolved governments to assent. Yes, Northern Ireland and Scotland and Wales. Such a united kingdom.
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These bills are silly. Sajid Javid already had to paddle back his statements from a couple days ago. This will be a long slow process and most of the Brexit will be in name only.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/23/sajid-javid-seeks-to-calm-business-in-davos-over-eu-rulebook-post-brexit
