Astrid wrote:
I went to a highly ranked school which was highly ranked mostly because of professors doing research, most were poor at teaching
Amen! I typically avoid message boards for this exact reason. Reading all of these posts is. mind boggling. The girl is a an excellent runner. Who cares where she is going to school. Who cares how much aid she is receiving and how it is given.
The only thing I know for sure is that she is a super talent and you. can't go wrong with NC State, running or academically. A sure way to make her fail in college would be her reading these nonsense posts regarding her decision and the ambiguous thoughts on the aid she is receiving. Hope she is not reading.
zxcvzcxv wrote:
if you assume talent is equally distributed, which I think is a good assumption
runnerexpert wrote:
Get out while you can...competing and getting a better education is better than sitting on the bench at nc state.
avoein wrote:
jed23 wrote:
Wow, when is the last time a school got 3 of the top 5-10 distance recruits in a class? Ever?
To answer this post, I would say the 06 Oregon recruiting class.
fastTuohy wrote:
Eyeroll wrote:
Who else is going to nc state?
Marlee Starliper, Claire Walters, Jenna Shultz. Kelsey Chmiel among others already there
justthefacts wrote:
Buster Cherry wrote:
Guy Stecklov wrote:
Kev2 wrote:
I know this does not sound PC, but I don't think being white is that much of an advantage anymore. If I apply to many academic jobs, I am supposed to address diversity issues in the application. This is becoming a huge red flag, and I won't waste my time on that. At one time, certain minority groups were repressed and discriminated against, now I think the pendulum has swung in the other direction. Being male also does not help either, but that is another issue.
Your facts are wrong. I study this issue. In certain very specific sectors of society, minorities and women are making headway, but in the vast majority of arenas in the United States, being black or a woman is still a major limitation in success.
There are numerous biases affecting women and minorities in the workforce. It's often harder for them to receive more senior roles, women don't receive as much direct feedback as men do, and they are sometimes evaluated differently during review processes.
That said, to say they don't receive benefits as well (especially during the hiring/applications process) is completely untrue. If you want to have a discussion about the topic at least make sure everything you are saying is true.
Here are a couple facts for you:
- I was in an interview review discussion this fall where the recruiter asked if we could swap out one of the guys for a woman. There was no discussion of how qualified each of them were, they just asked who the bottom guy was and swapped in the top female to help the ratio.
And don't try to say that biases led to the ratio being lower to begin with - we have software that removes PII from all resumes so people don't know the person's gender or ethnicity when reviewing the resume.
- I studied mechanical engineering and applied to an ME internship in my hometown while in college. I knew the head of the mechanical engineering department and he told me later that even though my resume was much better than the other candidates, I didn't have a chance because I wasn't a female or minority since they had to hit certain numbers. Sure enough, I saw a picture of the interns at the end of the summer and he was right about who ended up being chosen.
- It is objectively easier to get into some elite schools if you are certain minorities. Not PC to say, but the statistics back it up - if you want to deny it I'll spend 2 minutes googling it and send you an article.
The first two examples above are two different industries - one in tech/analytics and one in engineering. Are you saying both of these fall within the very specific sectors?
For a more entertaining example, you can also read about runner James Hogue's strategy for getting into Princeton by pretending he was Hispanic (which worked).
Most elite universities were not even coed until the later 60s. And only recently have elite schools hit double figure enrollment numbers for the percentage of different underrepresented minority groups as a percentage of total enrollment. In effect, a whole lot more time would need to pass to counter the impact of decades of elite university admissions policies where you basically waltzed through the door if you were a WASP of a certain economic standing. Probably not a lot of consolation to the children, grandchildren and great grandchildren of the huge numbers of people who didn't do a whole lot to earn their sports at elite academic institutions as they now find themselves part of a much more competitive process, but once again, if dad, mom, grandad and great-grandad all graduated from elite unis, you're probably going to have a much easier path in life than the kid who does come from a family that has enjoyed great advantage for generation after generation.
zxcvzcxv wrote:
Buster, you're not taking into account what social conditions lead to a bunch of white and Asian males doing exceptionally well in grades and test scores, etc. You are right that universities want to balance their populations by race and gender but if you assume talent is equally distributed, which I think is a good assumption, but that opportunities are not equally distributed prior to applications, race and gender balancing makes sense. In my view, the difference between really good, mediocre, and bad xc programs at the hs and even middle school level illustrates how the right opportunities (good coaching, good training programs), not genetic ability, really create vast differences that are not due to natural talent. The differences are so stark (low 15 average for Newbury Park, for instance, in comparison to 19, 20, 21 for lousy programs), yet there's no clear genetic component and teams can sustain something close to that for long periods (York being an example).
EZrun is a very knowledgeable poster... he says something good chance it's accurate
It would be interesting to know how their balancing all these top athletes and scholarships
Usually the word is that they go with financial aid academic scholarships and then make up the remainder with an athletic scholarship
But then again if you're really coming in as the top athlete and your main focus is to be the best at your sport then I would have to think that it's not a bad idea to be on a full scholarship full athletic scholarship
But then the question is they have 5 Elite distance Runners all coming into the program
And they already have several Elite Runners already on the team
I'd have to think that the coach tells them all ahead of time what's the minimum they'll get
And then what positions in terms of top Runners get what
I'd have to think all these Elite Runners are guaranteed at least a 50% scholarship plus whatever financial aid and athletic scholarships they qualify for
But then again you want a team where the girls are all rooting for each other and where it's not a competition for more money
I guess each program finds their comfort level with all that and how they strike the balance. But they just landed five Elite Runners coming into an already successful programs so they must have a way to offer these ladies some pretty good deals.
Thanks guys I appreciate everyone's kind words
But don't look at me like the pope or anything
I mean every time I because I don't want people to think I'm issuing a Papal edict
But I do do my best to give some accurate inside and drop some knowledge for all my mofos
My guess would be that they have their top distance Runners cross-country Runners on 60- to 80% and they have the rest of the team on anywhere from quarter to half scholarships. And they do their best to make up the balances with financial aid and academic scholarships. And they have everyone on in state tuition so you're only looking at like 20K a year and even if you're on half scholarship that's going to get knocked down to maybe 5 K a year after everything else. Anyway that's my two cents
Yeah that sounds about right. You got to keep group camaraderie. There has to be a reason they're getting all these top athletes so they must be able to put together some pretty good incentives. I guess they also have really nice facilities and maybe draw some pretty good crowds. Anyway it'll be fun to watch tuohy starliper they already have some top Runners so they should be a fun team. See if they can win a championship freshman year do like The new Fab Five only actually win....
The NCAA does not permit any nonathletic aid be given to athletes that is any different than what is given to other equivalent students. So if althetes get instate, all students get instate. But that is not true based on their website. They carry about 50 women on the roster. So if 2 from sprints, distance, throws, mid-d, and jumps get 80%, that is 8 going to 10 people. That leaves 10 scholarships for the other 40 women. If 5 more of these new girls get 80%, that leaves 6 scholarships for 35 women. I think some of these incoming studs must be accepting much less with a promise of an increase in the future. That makes the decision to go to NC State even less logical when they could have chosen a better school for less money.
But women can do anything a man can do. Why don't evolutionists believe that different races could be different? Why would it only be skin color that evolved differently? Are blacks faster? Are Asians smarter? Are scandinavians taller? Are Asians shorter?
Man, I really butchered that reply. I'll assume all my credibility is gone now :)
Here is the article on Marlee Starliper's recruitment which shows the NC State coaches to be great recruiters. NAU was her dream school and NC State was at the bottom of her list yet she ends up there. Her father also says that their first offer was a full athletic scholarship.
https://www.yorkdispatch.com/story/sports/high-school/girls-cross-country/2019/10/21/northern-york-running-standout-marlee-starliper-commits-n-c-state/4057658002/
Ezrun wrote:
Chooser of schools wrote:
Did anybody say it was a good school?
Guys seriously it has one of the best computer science programs in the world
It also has a top engineering and math School
Their business school is really solid
Its ranked around a hundred out of the top schools in the world
You're probably looking at 5000 major institutions in that survey
It's one of the top research schools in the world
No it doesn't have the elite reputation of some better known schools but that doesn't mean it's not really good
I'm not saying it's among the very best I'm just saying it's a solid school that certainly way better than average
It's also a big state school that has a lot of funding and a lot of resources
They have great athletic facilities and clearly have recruited some great runners
Sure, she could've gone to a top-ranked school, but it's quite possible that she's trying to squeeze in a four-year degree in 3 years so that she has the option to go pro early, or get started on her masters, or do whatever she wants. That's a lot easier to do at a good but not top 10/20 school, when you're still trying to get top grades and be an elite athlete. Case in point: Allie O. No one in their right mind would deny her a job in her field just because she didn't get her 4.0's from Stanford/UVA/etc.
Top recruiter in the country, Chris Seaton. His #1 responsibility is recruiting, not coaching -
https://gopack.com/sports/cross-country/roster/coaches/chris-seaton/3274
justthefacts wrote:
Ezrun wrote:
Also NC State is a really good school. Some people need the elitism to open up doors for them but I don't think Tuohy is going to have that problem. She's focused on being a pro.
And even if she does not have much success as a pro, she's from a fairly well off white family family, so she does not need a degree from a fancy school to help her access most of the opportunities American society can offer. For some others in the society, passing on the opportunity to get a degree from an elite institution would be absolutely foolhardy. The irony of all the scrambling for places at elite institutions is that most of the folk who so covet those places for themselves and their children would do just fine without ever attending. For many of them, the degree amounts to little more than a vanity symbol.
I think you can get a fine education at most all state flagships, including NC State. One thing I would look for in a large school is a wide variety of majors and departments, because changing one's mind about courses of study, especially with an athletic regimen, occurs often. I think NC State fits this bill, and academics, like running, matters what one puts into it.
NC State is a high mileage place, so one never knows how even a super talented athlete will react (I never was a high mileage guy and was best on 60-70 a week) to a high mileage college regimen. The matriculating athletes surely know this, so they are making a rational choice, albeit one with some risk (like everyone else, really).
I ran at a competitive university in the state years ago, and while stereotypes are always dicey, my impression of State people (and some were my friends) is that they were genuinely good people and down to earth. I can see why the school (and Raleigh has improved) is attractive.
