..so, how did you race..?!
..so, how did you race..?!
^ wrote:
..so, how did you race..?!
I never raced in anything worthwhile. My running "career" was a waste. In 1992, I followed the sub-30 min 10K schedule from the book The Self Coached Runner by Al Lawrence, which showed that I didn't learn my lesson from high school. Again, like in high school, the intervals killed me. I ended up getting overtraining syndrome, which I thought was chronic fatigue syndrome at the time. Same thing that ruined the career of guys like Geoff Roes, but I recovered after two years. That was the end of ever trying for PRs. For me, I could "overdo" mileage all I wanted, including 20 milers every day in singles and feel fine, but overdoing intensity led to extreme fatigue and worse.
I can pick out a couple races though. Nov. 17, 1991, 3 days before I ran the 29:28 6 miler, I won the intramural "5K" cross country race (UCLA) in 13:56 (I had also won the year before). The results might still be in some archive at the Wooden Center. The course must have been short though. I beat a guy that was at least a 14:40 runner by 5 seconds (he beat me in a different 5K road race in 1990 in that time), as well as some UCLA redshirts who might have been in 14:xx shape.
In spring 1992, after I had stopped doing the 6 mile tempos, but before I blew myself up, I ran a 5 mile cross country race in 25:07, finishing a step behind the guy who was the top UCLA distance man for a couple years when I was attending.
Did another 10k after a couple hours sleep from a night shift and did it in 31:49 with the lowest yet avg HR at 162 with a max briefly touching 180 before settling down to 177 for the final km. Started off faster than three days ago and felt stronger and more fluid. This might have been my easiest feeling effort yet. Didn't feel thrashed after at all. ZZZZ, as you mentioned with the intervals, I also would hit my paces but would feel very thrashed after most of them and often times my legs would tire out before my HR got into VO2max zones. You had some really fast times you got down to, sub 30 is amazing! Do you ever think of trying to get your times back down again?
Heading on vacay tomorrow so training might be spotty for the next ten days and may not update. Am signed up for a HM just after I get back so will see how that goes, I may just do some shorter wo's when I'm gone, maybe another 10k and then a 5k the week before the race.
Yesterday for my shakeout run I did 16k at 4:07 pace, with several k's in low 3:40 pace. Felt to be an extremely easy effort and I was holding myself from going faster as every time I would accelerate a little I'd be doing 3:20 pace.
..are you warming up at all, or just hitting it full gas from the beginning of your run..?
still going wrote:
10k tt in exact same time as three days ago, 31:59 and same avg HR at 164 (max 177) although it hit a higher number earlier in the run as I started off a little faster. I temporarily slowed and almost gave up at 8k before deciding to grind out the last two km. Legs were definitely sub par for this one as I did a 20k run two days ago and averaged 3:50 pace. That was the day after the last 10k tt. Had meant to just do 20k at an easy pace but just ended up cruising along faster as it was feeling really good. Still a good wo but for sure will take it easy the next couple of days so I can get some better recovery.
you make me nervous...felt tired at the beginning but ended up running close to 6:00/mi for 12mi?
seems like you don't know when to back off. gonna bite you in the butt pretty soon here.
Just wanted to say that this is a fascinating thread, I am very interested to see how things progress!
^ wrote:
..are you warming up at all, or just hitting it full gas from the beginning of your run..?
Warning uo with first k's close to 8min / mile pace then picking it up
^ wrote:
..are you warming up at all, or just hitting it full gas from the beginning of your run..?
Starting real slow and then pick it up after after a few k
Keep it going and have a good race at the half marathon!
Been in Riviera Maya last 9 days and coming home today. A couple days after arriving I tried a 10k tt and barely managed 5k in 18min and then just went 7 min/ mile pace next 5k. Was very hot and I had zero endurance and felt like I had no strength. Four days later I tried again and this time did 5k in 17:15 and then gave up on trying to make it to 10k and instead did 4 x 1k at around 3:12 min/km pace. Was still too hot too hot and hit the redline at what was my warm up pace before. So hoping I can run normally again back home in cooler temps!
The other issue I have to deall with now is getting back onto a normal diet as I've been eating like a glutton, plus having several drinks a day at the all inclusive resort. So have probaly put on 5lbs or so and am afraid to step on the scale once I get home lol . So not sure what to expect at the half but I should be back to lean shape in a few weeks
Did the half M race today in a little over 72 min and felt really good. Pace was feeling really easy, almost too easy, through the half way mark but the next group was ahead by a couple hundred meters and I just wasn't sure if I should try to break away but luckily another runner surged so I went with him and then eventually caught up with the group by the last km. Avg HR was 163 and peaked at 179 at the finish during sprinting 2:50 pace the last 600m. That last hundred m definitely put some hurt in my legs. So overall I'd say it was a cautious and conservative effort but still a huge PB and 5min faster than the same race last year. Will now recover for a week or so and then will probably start doing the 10k tt's again at a conservative effort before building back up to full effort.
Congrats on that race result. What was your best 10k leading up to this, 32? 33? That seems nicely in line with the 72 minute half.
I'm still quite intrigued by this training and seeing how it goes for you. I'm not quite ready to do it myself. I'm more in a phase of adding miles and doing slower tempos. But I love the simplicity and old school feel of this. Enjoy your recovery!
keepgoing wrote:
Congrats on that race result. What was your best 10k leading up to this, 32? 33? That seems nicely in line with the 72 minute half.
I'm still quite intrigued by this training and seeing how it goes for you. I'm not quite ready to do it myself. I'm more in a phase of adding miles and doing slower tempos. But I love the simplicity and old school feel of this. Enjoy your recovery!
I hate to be so negative but anybody doing solo time trials in 32:00 for 10k out to be running faster than 72min for a half. I ran 71 in the half last year and if I ran a 10k time trial it probably would’ve been 33mid and no faster, which is not much quicker than half marathon pace.
Now...if you really did put on some weight on your vacation and can run another race in a month or so, that should tell a more complete story
I was thinking the vacation indulgences and being away from regular training probably led to not exactly the best race result. I would be curious to see how a half marathon race would go for him if he didn't break routine.
Also, to be fair, you'd probably solo a 10k in mid 33, but you would also probably be doing much better times after 4+ weeks of practicing them.
According to Daniels running calculator a 32m 10k can equate to a 70..5 half so this was definitely slow as compared to that. But it's usually harder getting equivalent times going up in distance and I haven't done any specific 1/2 training since last september and haven't run over 20k since I started doing these 10k wo's. And reed a 71min 1/2 equates to just over 32min for a 10k so 33min could have been pretty easy for you for a 10k. But this basically did feel like an easy tempo effort until the last km and especially the last 600m that I floored it. I didn't do any carb loading and was mostly using this race to run within myself and set a new baseline for this distance. The 10k tt's I've been doing have been at a much, much higher relative effort and really pushing my V02 max harder. This race my HR was no higher than 165 for 80% of it. Also I ran conservatively cause I didn't completely trust my legs to not run out of gas the last 3 or 4k as I had little idea where my 10k + speed endurance was at.
keepgoing wrote:
Congrats on that race result. What was your best 10k leading up to this, 32? 33? That seems nicely in line with the 72 minute half.
I'm still quite intrigued by this training and seeing how it goes for you. I'm not quite ready to do it myself. I'm more in a phase of adding miles and doing slower tempos. But I love the simplicity and old school feel of this. Enjoy your recovery!
Yes it's definitely as simple as it gets! And will enjoy the recovery also, will be nice to take it easy for a bit! I've done all kinds of complicated and well thought out training plans before but have never had the dramatic kinds of results in such a short time by only doing 10k all out wo's and trying to PB each one. And I feel there's much more progress to make, it's amazing how more comfortable a pace can feel that was a straining type of pace a coupe weeks before through just repeating it over and over.
After it becomes near impossible to PR each 10km, will you continue but realize that you are near a plateau of sorts and it’s just a hard tempo ?
From 34:50 to 31:49 in 5-6 weeks. Nothing fishy here.