Tuohy finishes second in pro 6k race!!

Have Tuohy and Dudek ever raced head to head?

falconrunner22 wrote:

Have Tuohy and Dudek ever raced head to head?

I was going to say maybe at NXN last year but Dudek didn't qualify for either meet.

Objective Means wrote:

There is objective data to support it whether you like it or not. Ewert lost to Tuohy by 1 second. Dudek crushed Ewert. So if we assume that all runners had similar performances at the meets, that wold put Dudek under 20 minutes. You would have to argue that Tuohy had a bad performance at NXN or Ewert had a bad performance at Footlocker. That would be subjective on your part.

Tuohy *clearly* 'had a bad performance at NXN.' (I mean, it's clear if you're not a *moron*; if you're a moron, yeah, it may not seem so clear.)

By SR, or just about any other objective measure you might devise, she had one of the worst races she's had in the last three years.

Dudek had by far the best race of her life.

But clearly, you have a difficult time with things like facts and logic, so I'll leave you to your stupidity.

1. Thanks for posting that vid. It was great.

2. Your analysis still sucks (and has *nothing* to do with posting a vid).

3. 'Irregardless' is not a word in the English (or any other) language --though dumb people often think it is.

Was kind of like Jenny Simpson’s last NCAA cross championship race, pressure, nerves, late season fatigue came together to produce a sub par, creaky effort.

But her career turned out ok...

+1

Dudek has been steadily improving. People saying that she had her best race ever at Footlocker like that is not entirely positive? That indicates that she will be an outstanding college runner. Tuohy appears to have peaked last year. She will still be very successful even if she does not improve, because she is so good. I understand some of the resentment against Dudek because she won the US HS national championship as a foreigner. I also understand all of the support for Tuohy. She may be the best HS distance runner ever and she seems liks a good role model. But people should be able to seperate all of that and at least admit that Dudek is improving so rapidly, that there is a good chance she could have veaten Tuohy if they raced at Footlocker or USATF. We will never know though. It is amazing that by expressing a thoughtful opinion on these boards that some disagree with, results in personal attacks.

I don't think that thoughtful posts get attacked. I would put your post pretty much in that category although I am not sure about the "peaked last year" opinion. I think Tuohy's improvement slowed after the huge step in her sophomore year, and perhaps she has plateaued since then. Whether that means she has "peaked" remains to be seen. Dudek took a big step last Spring when she came somewhat out of nowhere to win the Brooks 1 mile. Prior to that Vanderlende and Hart dominated the MW. I found the explosion Dudek showed at the close of both that Brooks race and FL impressive. But again, we shall have to see what the future lies. Starcher looked very good winning Penn Relays last year and then faded for some reason. But a thoughtful opinion that does not attack someone is a good thing for this forum. Tuohy for whatever reason seems to draw attacks.

I appreciate she has improved significantly between her junior and senior year, but Dudek was still running neck and neck with Hart at the nxn regional, lost the FL regional, and beat Starliper by one second at FL nationals. Great season certainly, but in xc if Tuohy is running to form you need to look at an example like Cuffe (multiple course records, dominant nationals performance) when speculating about who had a credible shot to beat her. Of course everyone can have and will have a down race, but Tuohy's high school xc accomplishments were extraordinary.

Btw, what do you attribute Dudek's improvement to?

Dudek looks great. I think she only get better as her form improves

Starliper also looks really good I think her best distance might be the mile

Sydney thorvaldson and Brooke rauber are clearly two more young Runners with great potential

I bet Tuohy has another surge. She made big improvements from freshman to sophomore year. Her body is changing and Things Are plateauing. But overall she still looks great and from everything I see is definitely a good chance that she has another surge or two of development left where she improves

There is no real answer to that question. Some people just continue to progress until their late 20s. Maybe it is a confidence thing. Hey, I ran 18 minutes so I should be capable of 17:30. That can go on for a long time. Shelby Houlihan ran 14:34 even though her high school PR was 18:26. How do you cut 4 minutes after high school?

Dudek surprised everyone at Brooks PR, surprised the Euros at U-20 3000m, then surprised us all yet again at FL over Starliper (I honesty thought Marlee had put her away at one point). She said she came to FL to win, but even seemed to surprise herself with that kick. A lot of upside to that girl. We'll see if she is able to match up to Tuohy. The current girls' depth is historical.

I wouldn't be shocked to see Tuohy under 15:30 for 5K this winter, or a 9:3x two mile. The Oly Q (15:10) would be a huge stretch though.

Here’s the issue I have. Some people keep posting (while never under a registered name) ridiculous comments and predictions, which seem to always take a negative approach to certain runners...mainly Tuohy.

Take your post above...

1)dudek is having a great year, i haven’t seen anyone dispute it. Personally i think the girl is awesome. I don’t see anyone upset she is from Poland. Seems like a quarter of the top Ncaa athletes are transplanted. I haven’t seen a negative post about her.

2)an outstanding college career? I sure hope so...but there is no way to know how any of these girls progress in college. Walters, Ewert, Starliper etcetc have all had great years. Hopefully they all shoot the lights out in college.

3) you want to speculate that Dudek would have beat Tuohy, thats your opinion and your welcome to it. But there is no statistical basis for it ( as some people like to claim they have studied). On the same day that Dudek won FL (in a great race) , Tuohy ran the exact same pace but for 6km.

Dudek was completely spent after the 5k ( as she said in her interview). So according to the only relevant data available that day, no she would not have beat Tuohy. But why debate it...Tuohy was not at FL, nor was Dudek at Club Nats. So its all irrelevant.

4) what personal attack? I dont see any above...except on certain people who are saying negative/ridiculous comments towards some of these young girls. So if that was you...quit posting crap about young females. It really is pathetic.

Wasn't Cuffe in med school or something? She hasn't been that much of a factor in post -ncaa CC?

Danielle Shanahan who finished 7 seconds behind Tuohy had just set her 5K PR of 15:26 the previous week at that race in Boston won by Taylor Werner. So it does look like Tuohy should be ready to break 15:30 and maybe by 5 or 10 seconds.

I first noticed Dudek in the 3200 at the GVSU Elite meet last February. She didn't qualify for NXN or FLN last year but just three months later she stuck with the FLN podium finishers and ran a 10:07 PR. The race was a battle between Hart and Vanderlende with Vanderkooi and Dudek close behind. If Hart returns to defend her title we should get another great race this year.

I agree..there should be some great matchups throughout the year.

I've got to say...while I have followed HS runners occasionally, this year has been really interesting through XC and now going into track season, should be some premium matchups throughout....Dudek, Hart, Ewert, Thorvaldson, Walters, Rauber, Starliper, Masciarelli etc etc etc....and of course Tuohy.

So many quality runners ... the girls side seems to have exploded with talent !!

messi wrote:

Irregardless of my analysis (which is reasoned, insightful, and dead-on) I should still get thanks for posting that vid.

Only a small, petty man would think otherwise.

No, only a reasoned, insightful person would make those calls.

What a pity that you actually posted any reaction whatsoever to your lack of being thanked by one adversary. But if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy about yourself, then thanks for your genius. Please have your photo etched onto an outdoor metal light pole, and then, afterwards, please kiss that photo in sub-freezing conditions.

What a messi wrote:

messi wrote:

Irregardless of my analysis (which is reasoned, insightful, and dead-on) I should still get thanks for posting that vid.

Only a small, petty man would think otherwise.

No, only a reasoned, insightful person would make those calls.

What a pity that you actually posted any reaction whatsoever to your lack of being thanked by one adversary. But if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy about yourself, then thanks for your genius. Please have your photo etched onto an outdoor metal light pole, and then, afterwards, please kiss that photo in sub-freezing conditions.

I always thank for posting of relevant vids, irrespective of opposing viewpoints.

My point is, Tuohy had the recent MUDDER form. The pros rarely race xc (just not the same opportunities). Also, xc conditions change dramatically from mid-November on.

In those slippery conditions (and her recent MUDDER experiences) Tuohy's performance should not be considered a shocker. 20:11 is a fine effort, I have never said it wasn't. Tuohy is in peak "XC MUDDER" form right now.

I have laid out my reasoned, insightful analysis in excruciating detail. Can't you people see that?