Why is Texas so Bad at NXN?

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot wrote:

Translation: lots of poor coaching.

They certainly aren't losing potential runners to football, unless maybe they're a kicker.

Anyone can play football. My college roommate was from a tiny high school in Texas and he said EVERY male student was encouraged to play football

One thing to consider:

NXN does take talent away, as well. NXN was won by 2 TX boys and 2 TX girl's (all 4 different individuals, of course).

Craig Lutz, Reed Connor

Rachel Johnson, Chelsey Sveinsson

Also, I know for sure TX has had several runner-ups. Rachel Johnson and Sveinsson both finished 2nd at Footlocker, for sure?

My take, Texas summers negatively impact training. It's BRUTAL.

Hardloper wrote:

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

They certainly aren't losing potential runners to football, unless maybe they're a kicker.

Anyone can play football. My college roommate was from a tiny high school in Texas and he said EVERY male student was encouraged to play football

Pretty much. Many quarterbacks, receivers, cornerbacks, even running backs at 1A-3A schools would make good MD runners. Instead, if they run track, they're slow quarter milers and hurdlers. I had college teammates on the distance squad who were from small schools in TX who played football all four years. The best 800m man at my 5A high school was a varsity football player… forget his position but the team wasn't much good. 800m was his ticket to a college scholarship.

Heracles wrote:

We rarely ever get cold weather. We don't have many hills.

Bring the northern teams to Texas. Let' s see how they fare in humidity. It's not easy training in Texas summer, just like it's not easy training in the Winter for many other states. Maybe that's why Texas doesn't perform as well during XC, but we perform better in Track? Our Summers are brutal, our winters mild.

Just look at Track & Field. We produce just as fast times as any other states in the nation, including in Distance running.

Weather, traveling, and courses/hill make a difference.

Given that NXN is in December, would the heat and humidity really be that much of a factor?

Also depends on the part of Texas as it isn’t all humid, some areas are dry.

Ciro wrote:

Heracles wrote:

We rarely ever get cold weather. We don't have many hills.

Bring the northern teams to Texas. Let' s see how they fare in humidity. It's not easy training in Texas summer, just like it's not easy training in the Winter for many other states. Maybe that's why Texas doesn't perform as well during XC, but we perform better in Track? Our Summers are brutal, our winters mild.

Just look at Track & Field. We produce just as fast times as any other states in the nation, including in Distance running.

Weather, traveling, and courses/hill make a difference.

Given that NXN is in December, would the heat and humidity really be that much of a factor?

Also depends on the part of Texas as it isn’t all humid, some areas are dry.

It factors in when you consider the aspect of summer training (which is important for any elite high school athlete).

Also, consider the humidity for where the population really lies (for example, Houston is the largest city and a big base of the population---and is humid as f**k):

Heracles wrote:

Ciro wrote:

Given that NXN is in December, would the heat and humidity really be that much of a factor?

Also depends on the part of Texas as it isn’t all humid, some areas are dry.

It factors in when you consider the aspect of summer training (which is important for any elite high school athlete).

Also, consider the humidity for where the population really lies (for example, Houston is the largest city and a big base of the population---and is humid as f**k):

https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Texas/humidity-annual.php

Well aware of that, but racing in Houston or Austin or Dallas in December is very different than July or August.

I doubt Texans would see that much of an advantage at this time of year.

Heracles wrote:

We rarely ever get cold weather. We don't have many hills.

Bring the northern teams to Texas. Let' s see how they fare in humidity. It's not easy training in Texas summer, just like it's not easy training in the Winter for many other states. Maybe that's why Texas doesn't perform as well during XC, but we perform better in Track? Our Summers are brutal, our winters mild.

Just look at Track & Field. We produce just as fast times as any other states in the nation, including in Distance running.

Weather, traveling, and courses/hill make a difference.

Contradicting yourself. Assuming your weather statement is true then what about california doing good in xc? Or colorado where its hilly and cold in winter yet they have better distance runners? Stop looking for excuses. Most texans go to foot locker where competition is soft compared to nxn. The only time footlocker was a tough era was pre 2000’s, ed vs futsum and with drew and grant. Other than that its soft.

I ran at the 2nd NTN for TX, and would agree with these points. We wanted to win the TX State Meet and NTN was also weeks after the State Meet. I don't think we would have been top 10 @ NTN, but I think we could have been closer.

3. State Championship comes first. The motto was to win the state meet first, then worry about NXN.

4. NXN was 4 weeks after the TX state meet. We got to NXN feeling flat as we had been racing since August.

Todd Harbour was a 3:50 miler from Waco, Texas in the 80's. Jon Warren ran sub-4 at Rice.

What sports are Colorado good in, besides XC? Basketball? Football? Let me know.

And Colorado has better distance runners... what? Is that why Texas always produces better distance times on average in Track season? Or, is the 3200m not a distance event now?

And why are you comparing California to Texas? California has better weather than Texas on average, are you serious right now? Try living in Los Angeles vs Houston, let me know how what you think.

Also (because population is always a factor):

California - 39.6 million

Texas - 28.7 million

And no? Most Texans do not go to FL. Most top tier Texans usually are on a top team in Texas, and end up running Footlocker. Flower Mound, Southlake Carroll, The Woodlands, etc.

Reed Connor didn't run Footlocker Nationals (and he won NXN)

Alex Maier didn't run at Footlocker Nationals (and he ran at NXN--- 3 times?)

Ryan Schoppe didn't run at Footlocker, and he is the best individual runner in Texas (although at NXN he seemed to not run his best and finished 2nd for Texas runners)

etc.

And to further add---

Hills & cold in the winter is a perfect training combination for NXN. Not to mention, Colorado doesn't truly experience the harshest parts of winter until after NXN is already over.

That still doesn't address the brutal summer months, you know, when athletes are building their base for the coming season. How many of these states actually do compare to Texas heat/humidity during the summer?

You still haven't pointed out why Texas doesn't perform as well during XC, but does in Track (when we have mild winters). Go figure, seasons and weather (besides sports) do play a big role.

Hi, I ran HS in TX and ran NXN. My year there were 5 of us in the top 25. Just because TX teams don't win NXN every year doesn't mean the state is "Bad at NXN", there have been many individuals in the top 25 since, and the teams have done just fine. Whoever said "team culture" doesn't matter in Texas, or that nobody cares about xc has no idea what he/she is talking about. The sport is pretty big down there, and the state meet has plenty of spectators. My principal and AD went every year to watch. Southlake is a big time football school and their cross country team has always crushed too.

Some insight on the choice btwn NXN and FL:

The championship season when I was in HS looked like this-

Weekend 1- District Championships (vs Parker Stinson)

Weekend 2- Regional Championships (vs Reed Connor)

Weekend 3- State Championships (vs Reed Connor, Parker, Lutz)

Weekend 4- Nike South (vs all of the above)

Weekend 5- Footlocker Regionals in North Carolina (far!)

Weekend 6- NXN

Weekend 7- Footlocker

If an athlete chooses to do both meets, that is 7 straight weekends where you need to run 15min or below to win/be competitive. I chose to not go to FL South to give myself one weekend off of racing to take my shot at NXN. With how fast these kids are now, having an off race on the sixth straight weekend of high-level championship racing is understandable when the season starts in August in 99 degree weather

Brutally hot most of the year and so difficult to get in quality training.

State is mostly flat as a pancake, so difficult to get in hill training.

Apart from the few elite programs like the Woodlands, Kingwood, Cinco Ranch, etc, there isn't a great history of distance coaching there.

At least, these things have been my experience coming from a 5A program and witnessing a few teammates (state meet champs, 4:10 milers, 14:40 5k guys) get utterly destroyed at Footlocker and Nike Nationals.

Hardloper wrote:

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

They certainly aren't losing potential runners to football, unless maybe they're a kicker.

Anyone can play football. My college roommate was from a tiny high school in Texas and he said EVERY male student was encouraged to play football

Ive had three teammates who exclusively played football do track and be successful at it. one guy did xc and track his freshman year with me and his pr then was 18:18 / 4:55 / 2:15 then his senior year with no base work he was our county champion got top 16 at state and ran 1:59.

the second teammate did basketball/baseball/football/ AND xc all 4 years of highschool. He was 205lbs and ran 17:50 / 4:50 / 2:00

The Last and fastest guy played football until his senior year where he was the large school classification state champion with a 1:55. He ran 24 min 8k's in college too so maybe anyone can run too? None of these guys were small by any means either.

It’s the same reason why Texas NCAA teams perform worse in XC than they do in track.

Look at the recent NCAA athletes. Sam Worley, Brian Barraza, Alex Rogers, John Rice and others. All significantly better during track season than in XC. Even going back to the talented Texas teams with Lutz and Dohner. They tended to under perform compared to what they did on the track.

Texas has to deal with brutal heat and humidity all the way through September and October. While the rest of the country can do 8 mile tempos at a quality pace, Texans suffer through it.

For track season it’s the opposite. They get great winter training and then when it’s getting hot it’s only shorter faster work that’s needed.

That doesn’t explain everything but it’s a large part. It’s also why the El Paso teams tend to do better in XC then on the track. It’s hot but not humid.

Makes sense. What doesn't make sense is the fact that they start their seasons so early. People have said that they are racing in August and done with their season well before NXN, while in more temperate places people are finishing seasons in November. Seems ridiculous that a state with brutal August and September weather decides to race in those months instead of October / November. I imagine the same logic would apply to other sports. Weird that very cold places have later fall sports seasons than places like TX.

Texas = weakness

I think what is important to recognize here is that despite all the $hit talking, California has been on the podium AND won more than any other state.