10k- 39:34; 1/2 M- 1:35:19... how can I break 3?

Off that Half and 10K, your fitness is nowhere close to sub 3.

If that's your goal, back off racing and start a sustained mileage buildup.

screwed for marathon? wrote:

Free_the_thigh wrote:

You arent going to break 3. Readjust your goal.

This would be dishonorable.

No, it's good advice.

Ha! Yeah, I agree sub-3 in eight weeks is a helluva long shot for OP. But I've had to walk during long runs, two months out, and still broke 3. Especially for younger guys, endurance can come quickly. A single 2-hour run can DOUBLE the number of mitochondria.

Still, the poster who predicted a big crash and a 3:20 finish may well be right if OP attempts 6:52/mile on race day. But I like to encourage folks to "go for it." And it IS possible with eight weeks to go. OP has the wheels.

And, man, I have NEVER attempted workouts within a long run. Not even marathon-pace segments. Too much of a wimp for that. Long runs are challenging enough, especially for low-mileage guys like me.

Apologies for the digression, but 1983 was also my first Boston. Perfect conditions, and incredibly deep field. I was in the best shape of my life, but decided to just run easy and "enjoy the experience." I was in probably in 2:37 shape, and jogged 2:47, looking ahead to a sub-2:35 attempt in the fall. Never happened. Aargh!

My 3:07 at age 58 age-graded to "2:36," though, so I'll have to settle for that!

Appreciate your attitude to go for it Allen1959 as none of the posters telling me it cant be done have 'suaded me.

My last 5 weeks of mileage: 37, 41, 43, 47, 31

Proposed next 8 weeks of mileage: 50, 40, 50, 70, 45, 70, 50, 45(final wk)

Races: 12/7 - 8k; 01/05 - 1/2M; 02/02 - 1st marathon.

stil_kannonier wrote:

Proposed next 8 weeks of mileage: 50, 40, 50, 70, 45, 70, 50, 45(final wk)

Races: 12/7 - 8k; 01/05 - 1/2M; 02/02 - 1st marathon.

I like the half marathon four weeks out. Hopefully you'll run 1:25 or so. That will be at then of your peak mileage week? Might be tough.

The last time I broke 3 for a marathon, I also raced a half marathon four weeks before. Gotta tell you, though, I ran 1:22.. But the marathon was a very comfortable negative-split 2:56.

Get your 10K down to about 37:00, and your half marathon to 1:23 before worrying about a sub-3:00 'thon.

remember you asked for advice wrote:

classic LR newbie: I have this arbitrary goal not based on anything other than it sounds cool. Is it unrealistic?

LR forum: Yes.

classic LR newbie: But if I like work really hard can I do it in under two months?

LR forum: Go for something more in your range and don't risk getting hurt. Be patient and you'll have long-term success.

classic LR newbie: You don't know what you're talking about! I know way better than you guys with decades of experience and am going to do it my way!

Two months later...

classic LR newbie: OK, so I totally bonked and ran 3:20. I probably could have done 3:10-3:15 if I hadn't gone out so hard.

+1

Last night 12/3 ~ final hard track workout; tempos/long runs only from here on out

1. 3 mile tempo - 19:57, 6:39/mile

6 min rest.

2. 3 x 1 mile. 2 min rest.

5:43, 5:49, 5:36

12/4 - 7 easy

12/5 - 4 easy, strides

12/6 - 6 easy

12/7 - 8k Race. Goal 29:45.

12/8 - 100 minutes very easy

12/9 - 56 days until marathon

What was the purpose of running the mile repeats so hard?

What's the purpose of the workout wrote:

What was the purpose of running the mile repeats so hard?

After workout I felt I had enough left in tank for another 5:40-5:50, so it was hard but not crushing. I am hoping after last nights v02 workout and the 8k race in sub 30 this weekend, that the 6:10-6:50 tempo paces ill be training at the next 5 weeks will feel much easier.

screwed for marathon? wrote:

I feel like my 1/2 M should be much quicker considering I just ripped my local 10k trot in 39:34. What the hell can I do the next 2 months to break 3 in the marathon? Do these times mean I have some speed but lack requisite endurance?

Basically should I just do tempo runs and easy long runs til marathon in february?

If this is real, 1:35 is real bad relative to a 39:34 10k. No chance you break 3 in the next 2 months.

FWIW my PRs are 40:30, 1:28, and 3:12, and that's a more common line

Although I am one of the realists (or naysayers?) of this thread, I am quite curious about how your training progresses and how your future races go. And I'm certainly not hoping you fail, so keep up with the updates and questions.

You've definitely got some good speed. I'm not sure I could have done that mile repeats workout (and I've got a 10k PR a little over 2 minutes faster than yours). Do you have a recent 5k race result?

stil_kannonier wrote:

Last night 12/3 ~ final hard track workout; tempos/long runs only from here on out

1. 3 mile tempo - 19:57, 6:39/mile

6 min rest.

2. 3 x 1 mile. 2 min rest.

5:43, 5:49, 5:36

12/4 - 7 easy

12/5 - 4 easy, strides

12/6 - 6 easy

12/7 - 8k Race. Goal 29:45.

12/8 - 100 minutes very easy

12/9 - 56 days until marathon

So you're going from relatively no long run to 100 minutes which is 14 miles or so, the day after an 8k race? Seems um...real smart. Purpose of 3x1 mile on the track? I am confused by your strain of thought. You ask for advice on here, yet seem to not heed it. Do you get to rest in between miles running a 3 hour marathon? Do you run a marathon on the track? NO & NO.

Also, 100 minutes is never easy.

It's hard because you are so new to running and because your race times don't quite match up. But I would say you don't need to be ripping miles that fast for marathon training for your goal. The faster intervals don't really relate to marathon training. I would say that you shouldn't go faster than 10k pace for the faster workouts. You need to get your body used to the demands of the marathon. Good luck with the training!

stil_kannonier wrote:

Last night 12/3 ~ final hard track workout; tempos/long runs only from here on out

1. 3 mile tempo - 19:57, 6:39/mile

6 min rest.

2. 3 x 1 mile. 2 min rest.

5:43, 5:49, 5:36

12/4 - 7 easy

12/5 - 4 easy, strides

12/6 - 6 easy

12/7 - 8k Race. Goal 29:45.

12/8 - 100 minutes very easy

12/9 - 56 days until marathon

I'll add to the others that said this already, but last night's workout was a waste. That 3 mile tempo (aside from giving you a taste of what your first three miles of your sub3 marathon attempt will probably feel like) doesn't do much for your marathon fitness. And why you are running 3x1 mile at 5k(?) pace after a tempo run is beyond comprehension.

If you are serious about this marathon, why are you wasting a weekend with an 8k run at 6min pace? Get a long run in, that's what you need.

stil_kannonier wrote:

What's the purpose of the workout wrote:

What was the purpose of running the mile repeats so hard?

After workout I felt I had enough left in tank for another 5:40-5:50, so it was hard but not crushing. I am hoping after last nights v02 workout and the 8k race in sub 30 this weekend, that the 6:10-6:50 tempo paces ill be training at the next 5 weeks will feel much easier.

Well if you end up running sub-30 for 8k, then that would be a 38:00 10k equivalent. That would mean you improved your 10k by 94s in a matter of two weeks. If that's the case then, hey, maybe you can knock your 3:20 fitness to 3:00 in two months. Tell us how it goes.

BadNewsBears wrote:

So you're going from relatively no long run to 100 minutes which is 14 miles or so, the day after an 8k race? Seems um...real smart. Purpose of 3x1 mile on the track? I am confused by your strain of thought. You ask for advice on here, yet seem to not heed it. Do you get to rest in between miles running a 3 hour marathon? Do you run a marathon on the track? NO & NO.

Also, 100 minutes is never easy.

I would argue that there is no race out there that I'm aware where you get to rest in between miles, so..? While I'm relatively new to running but I would guess from the little knowledge I have, that a 3 x mile workout would be helpful for my marathon form and economy?

But you are right, perhaps 100 minutes is not doable after the 8k race. Last week after the 10k race I could only realistically manage 3 miles the next day, due to calf pain.

So I'm thinking for the 8k race this can be my segway into the long run - 4 mile wu, 8k race, 4 mile cd = 13 miles. This would be a good start me thinks. Then next weekend I run the 100 minutes continuous.

provided OP ran an equivalent half (or if we didn't know his half at all) , what would you all say the 39:34 10k is good for marathon wise? asking as i have a similar 10k PR but don't have a recent half

Strides on easy days will be sufficient for form development/economy. Don't waste workout days.

If you really wanted to do a session devoted to that (I would advise against it as you need aerobic development primarily-Focus on the need to do's, not the nice to do's) would be something like straights and curves (run hard on straight portion of track, easy on the curves). Do about a 1-1.5 miles (8-12 sets total)of that and tag on easy miles and you got yourself a day.

But seriously, ignore V02 max workouts, your speed is already there you just can't sustain it.

Also, if you're going to run the 8k. Why not turn it into a tempo and tag on 10-12M and have a solid Long-run workout?