Vaporflys (presumably) crush it again. Produce amazing times in Valencia. 26:38 10k, A 2:03:51 and 4 2:18s!!!

haha! there goes all the arguments that vaporfly isn't fast enough for the 10K

Old man on porch wrote:

I think...I think...I think no one actually cares what you think. The shoes are super accessible. Not Nikes problem that the other companies are making inferior shoes. Time for other companies to step up, Nike isn’t making other athletes run for these companies. There is legit not reason the shoes shouldn’t be allowed at the olympics. If you are going to disallow these shoes then everyone should have to run in trainers.

Roller blades are also super accessible, but they shouldn’t be allowed.

The point of the plate is to act like a spring, which is why they should be banned.

No sane person can look at that curvature of the plate and not realize it is a spring (unless of course their ego requires them to think otherwise).

Frankly, I don’t think it even matters if the shoes in fact work. Running shoes shouldn’t have springs in them or mechanical devices designed to act like springs, whether or not they are effective.

Even if roller blades were slower, I would still think they should be banned from running races, and I’d be surprised to meet anyone who disagrees.

People are complaining because a multitude of studies show an increase in efficiency sufficient enough to distort race results, not only because of the availability of the shoe for certain athletes, but also by providing larger benefits based on certain stride and foot striking styles. Philosophically speaking, sure, it's just another break-through in a long line of innovations. But there's nuance that needs to be considered if you want race results to be determined by ability.

Eyeroll wrote:

How are there this many Vaporfly apologists!? Is it just the desire to argue? Or to feel better about your own PBs run in Vaporflys? The shoes clearly are a huge difference (see research, race results, etc) and it matters due to sponsorship obligations limiting access for pros. People aren’t on an even playing field AND we don’t have apples to apples record comparisons anymore. Rojo fights a lot of lame fights, but he’s totally right here.

Then what's stopping you from getting yourself a pair of Vaporflys and setting a world record? I am sure you can afford them.

What you said sounds sensible until you realize that the top athletes have not gotten faster on the track. It doesn't translate. The athletes are not better, it's the shoes (and everything else they may be doing).

Rojo, you’ve let the fascination with the vapor flys over shadow the appreciation for the world record by J Cheptagai and all the other runners today. If you’re not already, you should prepare something on the race itself and the athletes.

Eyeroll wrote:

How are there this many Vaporfly apologists!? Is it just the desire to argue? Or to feel better about your own PBs run in Vaporflys? The shoes clearly are a huge difference (see research, race results, etc) and it matters due to sponsorship obligations limiting access for pros. People aren’t on an even playing field AND we don’t have apples to apples record comparisons anymore. Rojo fights a lot of lame fights, but he’s totally right here.

Agree with all of this. Vaporflys = Doping. Period. It's all about intent and the evidence is undeniable. People are just trying to validate their performances that deep down they know are illegitimate. I applaud Rojo for his stance.

I tried on a pair in the store to see what the hype was about. Didn't run in them. Didn't have to. On the very first step WALKING I could feel them springing me forward at the point of toe off. And I knew at that point I could never wear them with a clear conscience and any times I ran in them would be meaningless.

I recently lost an important race to someone wearing Vaporflys that I had beaten several weeks before without them. I had a great race. Ran a PR. But I could just feel the guy bounding away from me with ease and I could feel the disadvantage I was at. It's my decision not to wear them, so I have to deal with that. You can call me stupid, but at least I have my integrity and can enjoy my PR with a clear conscience.

Basically if you run for yourself, you don't need or want the Vaporflys. But if you run because you need your ego pumped up by all your friends and co-workers over your bogus times...bounce away.

That's just my opinion, buy you'll never hear me apologize for it.

Querfeldein wrote:

nv4

Running is still very democratic sport. You can still get best shoes for 250$. Look into cycling. Without 10000$ bike you are basically out of competition even in amateur level.

This just shows that you don't understand cycling. In UCI regulated events, the is a lower limit on a bike's weight. You can get a bike at that limit for $3000 or less; beyond that, improvements are largely cosmetic. All Pros race in pretty much the same equipment (or at least, they have pretty much the same choice regardless of who their team's sponsor is).

Wrong...according to GCN, about the cheapest pro bike setup raced in the major UCI events was about $8k. The Pinarello setups that Ineos ride come in at about $18k per bike. That does not include anything but the bike. You’ll also need of course loads of other stuff, from pedals to tires to helmets and technical clothing for all seasons. And the pros pay zero for all that. Not to mention full time mechanics to keep everything 100% everyday.

Advanced amateurs easily put between $5k-$10k on their equipment. A good aero wheel set with tires will cost more than $1k and many closer to $2k. Most amateurs have at least two bikes. Cycling is so far beyond the annual cost of running it’s not even in the same ballpark.

Mostar wrote:

No you will be happy to have generated clicks and posts. Let us be honest about what you will be happy about. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Plus with trashing the black Africans. Let's not leave out that quite important detail.

Right. That's all there is to the story. That's why we have all these ultra rich Colombians taking over spending tens of thousands on bikes cuz its a rich man's sport.

Your Fly’s Open wrote:

The previous 10k record was set in 2010 and was only 6 seconds slower. Is it not reasonable to have a person run 6 seconds faster once after almost a decade?

Rojo, was Paula doped or not? These women are 3 minutes slower and you act like it’s not physically possible. Paula wasn’t in VF and would have won by a kilometer.

This!

Plus if I worry about fast times, I also worry about the temptation to measure the marathon short. Make your marathon a much bigger name destination.

PS: No proof, but Paula one of the most likely super successful dopers to have sailed past being caught. Imagine Ben Johnson being hired to do TV commentary all the time. Or Lance on the Tour.

Wear them on the track wrote:

Cheptegei is great, but how long until people see these clubbed shoes are responsible for all the improvements on the road these pasts 4 years?

Not as game changing as the flotation swimsuits that broke all the records then were banned in swimming.

Aussiestatman wrote:

Wear them on the track wrote:

Cheptegei is great, but how long until people see these clubbed shoes are responsible for all the improvements on the road these pasts 4 years?

Not as game changing as the flotation swimsuits that broke all the records then were banned in swimming.

To me it looks exactly the same as the swimsuit situation.

Maybe several record tables shoudl be held, with and without Vaporflys and equivalent.

Old is as old does wrote:

As someone who has run two races now in the 4% shoes. I have to say all the hype is ridiculous. Have I run fast? Yes. Did I have to work hard to do it..Very much YES! so even if the shoes are helping. Your legs still have to move fast.

You also have to think. This is now the era of the sub 2:02 marathon. Now that it has been done more runners are going to get closer, just like so many runner realized that sub 4 was possible for a mile.

Stop questioning every performance like 2:04 marathons are impossible.

Haile G. ran sub 2:04 back in 2008.

Replace "4% shoes" with "epo". :

"As someone who has run two races now on EPO. I have to say all the hype is ridiculous. Have I run fast? Yes. Did I have to work hard to do it..Very much YES! so even if EPO is helping. Your legs still have to move fast. "

If your legs still have to move fast, why do you chose to pay so much to shod them? Simple: because the expensive shoes make you (hard working you may be) faster. The advantage is relative, of course, and essentially all running shoes help. But all aids are relative. Vitamins help, EPO helps more. At some point, policy makers make judgement calls, allow one and ban another.

I know that guy does not want to admit that the only reason he ran faster and maybe beat some people he normally doesn't beat recently was because of his new shoes. If I ride a bike instead of running my "legs are still moving fast," right? Too funny.

You make yourself sound like a puritan, self righteous martyr. Should we put a good word for you to be canonized?

The guy’s PR who beat you on the vaporfly is as good as yours as long as the shoe is LEGAL to use. Your self righteousness and opinion does not define who’s PR’s are good and who’s aren’t because you are not the AUTHORITY to declare a pair of shoes illegal.

Nike is at the edge of running shoe engineering, that’s a fact.

On the other hand nothing is precluding you to go crying to the IAAF to declare the shoes illegal. Perhaps a signed petition will help your cause?

Good luck!(you certainly need it)

John Wesley Harding wrote:

I remember back in the day

Those were, and still are, the fastest shoes ever.

Eyeroll wrote:

How are there this many Vaporfly apologists!? Is it just the desire to argue? Or to feel better about your own PBs run in Vaporflys? The shoes clearly are a huge difference (see research, race results, etc) and it matters due to sponsorship obligations limiting access for pros. People aren’t on an even playing field AND we don’t have apples to apples record comparisons anymore. Rojo fights a lot of lame fights, but he’s totally right here.

You nailed most of it right there.