Road Racing and Training Thread - Week Ending 12/1

highhoppingworm wrote:

I have a general question for this group. As a newer running building up mileage to this point running singles I have been forced this week to run a few doubles due to time constraints and the fact that I can’t stand more than an hour on a treadmill. My goal is still to hit the same mileage total (mid 70s) but I will have 2 days with a 6/4, 7/5 split instead of 10/12. I am finding it is much easier on my body but am worried I am not getting the same stimulus. How does this esteemed crew look at doubles and how they should factor into marathon training?

I’ve done 100 mpw cycles with very few doubles. Have done similar mileage with 3-4 doubles per week and achieved similar results. I don’t think one way provides a significantly better stimulus than the other. While I can see why fewer doubles and longer easy runs might be better, I also think more doubles and shorter easy runs leave you better recovered for the hard days, which are the days that really count. In any event, it’s not something that is worth worrying about.

There are theoretical merits to each approach.

Longer singles should force you to cycle through the different sources of carbohydrates available to you (either in your liver or in your muscles) more frequently, which, in theory, should make you more efficient at doing that. That efficiency should have a positive effect on race day if you are running a marathon.

With doubles, because certain hormones (I honestly forget which hormones) are released only during the first twenty minutes of exercise, you get the benefit of having certain hormones being released twice per day instead of only once.

Personally, I have always been a lot of long singles kind of guy because I like the mental adaptation that comes along with thinking of 10-12 miles as an easy recovery run. I think there is merit in that mentality when you are racing the marathon. Also, less laundry, less transition time, etc.

But if you aren't running the marathon, or if it is only happening here or there during the training cycle, I don't think it really matters very much at all.

I can second RS's comments about the XC race, it's a fun one. A race for runners by runners. Nice later start time (10am or later depending on your race). Door prizes are legit (some Gore-Tex stuff, nice swag) but you can leave and let those for me if you'd like. It's low frills, and the website isn't updated often (if at all). I just show up every year, register on race day, and have a blast (or a painful slog... )

Our club on the USATF feed of Instagram was pretty cool too. Their doing some takeovers from teams, so it was pretty cool to see our club featured.

This would be great, though I might be pretty lonely in the "3 kids" division... I honestly have no idea how I find the time. Lying, I run while at work, trying to get out of the house once your "in" is impossible.

You're off, for now, rrr. Want to submit a new time? It just doesn't feel right to have a list without rrr on there. I'm going to cull the list this week and drop a bunch of names I no longer see posting on the thread. If I drop you, and you want back on, submit a time and I'll get you there.

lanc - if you’re updating the leaderboard my 4:50 mile last week at the age of manhood (40) should be around 81%.

angryjohnny wrote:

lanc - if you’re updating the leaderboard my 4:50 mile last week at the age of manhood (40) should be around 81%.

Got it aj... 81.22%... will show next week.

Thanks mikemike on the insight about the AlterG! Yeah I was mostly worried about how the contraption would feel... guess I'll just have to try it at least once to get a feel.

LancRunner wrote:

angryjohnny wrote:

lanc - if you’re updating the leaderboard my 4:50 mile last week at the age of manhood (40) should be around 81%.

Got it aj... 81.22%... will show next week.

LANC, PEWOW AND JQ GO HOME DEVASTATED!!!

What do you guys and gals do for allergies? I am a long-time sufferer who likes to avoid taking drugs, but my allergies are so bad right now I will do anything to clear them up. My breathing was way too fast and irregular on my run this morning...could not get in enough air. I usually take Zyrtec, but that does only so much. Is there anything better? Neti pots seem disgusting to me. Any help out there? Thanks...

angryjohnny wrote:

LancRunner wrote:

Got it aj... 81.22%... will show next week.

LANC, PEWOW AND JQ GO HOME DEVASTATED!!!

GUTTED.

Incidentally, a 15:59 would grade exactly 0.01% higher at 81.23% on the WMA 2015 road calc for me... Time to hustle

jot quill wrote:

angryjohnny wrote:

LANC, PEWOW AND JQ GO HOME DEVASTATED!!!

GUTTED.

Incidentally, a 15:59 would grade exactly 0.01% higher at 81.23% on the WMA 2015 road calc for me... Time to hustle

I have to run a 4:43 mile... or a 16:22 5k... so just 27 secs off my PR... I'll be working as well....

outsiderunner wrote:

What do you guys and gals do for allergies? I am a long-time sufferer who likes to avoid taking drugs, but my allergies are so bad right now I will do anything to clear them up. My breathing was way too fast and irregular on my run this morning...could not get in enough air. I usually take Zyrtec, but that does only so much. Is there anything better? Neti pots seem disgusting to me. Any help out there? Thanks...

I really wouldn't experiment with anti-histamines so close to race day. Everyone reacts differently to them, and many of them are sedating. Just because Allegra works great for someone else doesn't mean it will work well for you.

I used to suggest that (after discussing with their doctor) people supplement their current antihistamine with Zantac. [Zantac is also an anti-histamine that works synergistically with traditional OTC anti-histamines] However, Zantac has been recalled, so.....

Longer term - this is where you need to be getting in to see an allergist if you can. Really, you can fumble around trying to figure out what works, or you can see someone and get professional guidance, starting with testing to confirm what you are sensitive to. There are also prescription anti-histamines that work far better than the OTC versions (for example, I'm on Clarinex - the prescription version of Claritin)

LancRunner wrote:

jot quill wrote:

GUTTED.

Incidentally, a 15:59 would grade exactly 0.01% higher at 81.23% on the WMA 2015 road calc for me... Time to hustle

I have to run a 4:43 mile... or a 16:22 5k... so just 27 secs off my PR... I'll be working as well....

Since AJ had pacers of his own I'm sure he wouldn't object to me pacing you whenever you want to take a shot at that mile. I can't promise little lasers telling you where to run, but besides that you'd basically be in as good hands as Kipchoge was.

mikemike wrote:

CIM Week! I’ll be pacing one of the forward groups (maybe 2:37, maybe 2:42 or 2:45, they’ll give me the time this weekend). Good luck to Bruin, Stone, Mrs Stone, outside, Viking, GNR, cocoon. (also Napper at Memphis!). If you see a guy with a pacer bib and California shorts come say hi and I’ll buy beers for anyone I can find. I see some massive gaps between the PRs and workouts some of you folks are posting and expect to see some massive PRs. This is my third CIM and it’s crazy how deep the field and how easy it is to find people to work with, so remember to let others do the work as much as you can.

I'll take a beer and will buy beers as well!

I'm hoping that the big groups of runners will really help me. Every long distance race I've done, I've been in "no man's land" for a majority of the latter parts of the race. I've heard that being around others helps. Having said that, I may even make decisions about pacing based on staying with a group or ending up alone. This is especially true if we end up with headwinds. We'll see!

darkwave - Thanks very much. I saw an allergist some years back, went through all of the testing, and was on allergy shots for almost two years. I stopped the shots because they became too painful. In any case, I still have allergies, and they seem to accelerate in the fall season. I felt really pooped and out of shape in that run this morning, I suppose because of my breathing...and then my hammy got tight...lack of oxygen to the muscle is my best guess.

And to add to what I just wrote, which will hopefully clarify things some more...the above experience with allergy shots is one of the reasons why I avoid going to doctors. Stuff just does not work on me. It just doesn't. And plus it costs time and money. To me, doctors are all pretty cookie cutter anyway...offering cookie cutter treatments...that don't work on me. I know my body well, and they don't.

One other “interesting” experience...I recall the orthopedist some years ago recommending that I use Aspercreme on my knee (or something). It did absolutely nothing. I mean nothing...like so many other things they recommend. Doesn't work on me.

I got some hemp cream off of Amazon the other day (for my hammie), and at least I can feel that...a little.

And to continue this somewhat broken stream of consciousness...one of the main reasons I started running was to “clear out” my allergic respiratory system—to force it to take in air and expel it, rapidly and repeatedly on runs...to whip it into shape by stressing it and challenging it (probably the opposite of what accepted Western medicine would recommend).

I looked at reed's splits and the elevation profile. According to the profile, this will be the flattest course I've ever raced on. In fact, it's flatter than the flattest route I can find in my home town that's not a track. So, I'm not really sure if I'll feel the rolling hills too much unless they are just super short/steep and hard to see on elevation profiles.

As a general rule, I think the great Jack Daniels said that you could expect about a gain of 8 sec per mile per 1% grade downhill and something like 12-15 sec lost per 1% grade uphill (up to certain extreme inclines/declines). I've noticed that when I run by feel that I tend to fall right in this range naturally. The largest "net gain mile" is Mile 9 at about +0.75% grade. If Mile 9 is a few seconds slower thus saving minutes later in the race, that's trade-off that I'll take every single time. If Strava GAP is to be believed (I spot checked a handful of random runners), the hardest mile is actually Mile 2, followed by 9, then 12 and 15. Only 2 and 9 have a GAP of over 5 seconds.

So to answer your question, I'm not sure how I'm going to handle this. I'll probably be more focused on either feeling good or staying with a group to even notice small changes in pace. I suspect that if I start to feel uncomfy on an incline, that I'll do a quick HR check and if too high, I'll back it off a notch until I feel comfort return.

One more and then I will stop (maybe)...I finished my run the other day and was walking it off, as I usually do (for a quarter mile or so), and I see a car pull up and stop on the other side of the small road I was on. A woman with a concerned look on her face got out and came over to me, asking if I were okay. I was merely doing my usual post-run cough/choke heave-looking routine. She said she saw me choking and thought I needed help. She offered me some water, but I turned it down, after thanking her for her kindness.