That’s what I remember too. He was doing what they called blood packing. Putting in his own red blood cells that had been stored previously.
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That’s what I remember too. He was doing what they called blood packing. Putting in his own red blood cells that had been stored previously.
Lasse Laughs Last wrote:
"Nothing wrong" = not illegal. Blood doping was not illegal in 1976.
*Lasse laughs all the way to the bank*
Nothing wrong is same as never tested positive
Has he ever said I did not blood dope?
He did nothing wrong according to the rules but he certainly violated the spirit of the rules. That's what grey area doping is. It's cheating and making yourself feel good about it. The athlete knows it's wrong, but they can get away with it on technicality. A real weasel move.
New Zealand Splits wrote:
whatelseisnew wrote:
Day 8: He finished the 5000m final in 13:24, with the last mile under 4:00, to win.
Win yes. Not correct on the final mile.
Last 1000m in sub-4 pace, last lap in 55, and a report from him of a 3:42.0 last 1500m.
I cannot find official records or video of the last mile. Perhaps it was slower.
Well, it's old news. Dick Quax got the silver in '76 at Montreal. He said "I knew he'd be able to sprint with that extra blood".
But if you watch the last couple laps, Viren ran smart. He ran a shorter distance than Quax over the last couple laps.
Quax made a great move coming off the curve into the final stretch, but he couldn't dent Virens lead. He'd given up too much by running those extra yards.
The way Viren peaked for those two Olympic years '72 and '76 is interesting. Some athletes are just intense Olympic competitors. I sort of always leaned towards thinking he DID do the blood doping. Not even sure why I'd think thata, as there is no proof.
He was a brilliant tactical runner. Especially the Munich 10,000 and the Montreal 5000. Fun to watch still. So determined. Puttemans takes a shot at him with 150 to go in the Munich 10,000. They'd already dropped Yifter. This is the run that sealed it for me at age 15, track fan for life.
Munich 10K
Curious why the other athletes thought he was blood doping? Word likely was out somehow right?
wejo wrote:
Curious why the other athletes thought he was blood doping? Word likely was out somehow right?
Yes. But it wasn't doping. Don't forget that legal blood transfusions became, I cite, "widespread" in the 60s already. The literature was out there in the 40s already. Public knowledge. A bit like the "cheater shoes" these days.
casual obsever wrote:
wejo wrote:
Curious why the other athletes thought he was blood doping? Word likely was out somehow right?
Yes. But it wasn't doping. Don't forget that legal blood transfusions became, I cite, "widespread" in the 60s already. The literature was out there in the 40s already. Public knowledge. A bit like the "cheater shoes" these days.
This sounds like the Finnish coaches were also experimenting with androgens for use by their athletes in international competitions:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martti_Vainio"Doping case at the Olympics 1984"
"In 1984, Vainio started his season by finishing third at the Rotterdam Marathon with a personal record of 2:13:04. After the race he was drug tested organized by the Finnish Athletics Association. The test did not have official status and was merely considered to be a control test to help Finnish athletes avoid getting caught testing positive for doping in international championships. Therefore, only an A-sample was taken and not a B-sample, which is only used to confirm if a positive result came from the A-sample. Vainio's A-sample tested positive for anabolic steroids with no B-sample to confirm it. So the head coach of the Finnish Athletics Federation, Antti Lanamäki, delegated Timo Vuorimaa, the head coach of long-distance runners, to inform Vainio about the test result. Vuorimaa informed Vainio only by mentioning that there was something strange in his test sample, not providing detailed information about the substance. Vainio believed that he had only been using testosteroneand not anabolic steroids at all. Therefore, he decided in the future to stop administering the drug earlier so it would be out of his system prior to anticipated tests.[2]"
Hayduke wrote:
Lasse Laughs Last wrote:
"Nothing wrong" = not illegal. Blood doping was not illegal in 1976.
*Lasse laughs all the way to the bank*
Nothing wrong is same as never tested positive
Has he ever said I did not blood dope?
How is not breaking the rules equal to breaking the rules and not getting caught? And yes, Viren did deny blood doping but not until his career was done.
wejo wrote:
Curious why the other athletes thought he was blood doping? Word likely was out somehow right?
There were Finns who had blood doped and acknowledged it by the late '60s. I'm not going to dig around for the whole history but it has turned up here on some of the other 195,000 threads on this topic. One was Miko Ali Leppilamppa who was a world class steeplechaser in the '60s and '70s. He inferred that Viren had been one of those athletes but there was never anything but inference. And the technique was developed, I believe, in Sweden. So there were stories about the technique that located it in Scandinavia so when Viren burst out of almost nowhere in Munich there was a lot of question as to why he had done so well and blood packing was one theory tossed about.
What I've never understood is why by 1976 the questions were only being asked about Viren. In '72 the idea was pretty new but by '76 everyone knew what blood packing was and what it possibly could do. It's hard to believe that no one else in the Montreal distance events would not have taken advantage of a legal technique that could improve performances as stories said it could.
Marti Vaanio was dq'ed after failing drug test at 1984 Olympic 10k 2nd place. It was for steroids, and he explained that it must have been from reinfusing packed cells (blood doping) before the race. The packed cells were from the previous winter when he was using steroids for recovery.
Karlo Maanika was 2nd in 1980 Moscow 10k, and freely admitted using blood doping in later interviews.
Easy to "run smart" when you have a huge physiological advantage.
Tremendous article about Viren, where the author forgets to ask about the doping:
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/viren-s-talent-not-just-in-the-blood-1.1165284
"We know that Finnish athletes blood doped. In 1980, Kaarlo Maaninka took third in the Olympic 5,000 metres, edging Eamonn Coghlan out of a medal. He later admitted to blood doping. In 1984, Martti Vainio took second in the Olympic 10,000 metres. Afterwards, he tested positive for steroids, the traces of which had remained in the blood he had replaced just before competing."
Finns were part of the Scandinavian development of blood doping for skiing in the 60s and 70s ,and continued the legacy of doping into the new millenum:
https://www.nytimes.com/2001/03/13/sports/olympics-finland-reels-over-skiers-drug-scandal.html
The OP must be new to all this. As another poster said, this has been tales about since the 70’s. Heck, I remember reading an article about in back in 79 when Runners World was a real running magazine.
Even if he did, that practice was not illegal until 1983, 84 or 85 , I can’t remember exactly the year it was banned.
The OP thought he brought up something new and discovered something huge for us, not so.
Viren never had much of a schedule in non-OG years. He obviously had some physical talent. I think he stayed healthy, trained without incident and dabbled in extras before a major buildup. He was a low-keyed guy who kept quiet and delivered bigtime at the Games.
checkedit wrote:
New Zealand Splits wrote:
Win yes. Not correct on the final mile.
Last 1000m in sub-4 pace, last lap in 55, and a report from him of a 3:42.0 last 1500m.
I cannot find official records or video of the last mile. Perhaps it was slower.
55.4, 1:57.5, 2:29.5, 3:01.3, 4:05.2 last 4 laps so 4:06 for the last mile.
I'll guess you're thinking of 1972 when Viren ran 3:59.8 for the last 4 laps and 4:01.2 for the last mile.
100% fraud. Pre got robbed
Pipdick wrote:
think he stayed healthy, trained without incident and dabbled in extras before a major buildup. .
In the article he claimed to have been injured for most of the inter-Olympic years. Got "lucky" through an Olympic cycle to be healthy right when it counted most.
coachkritter wrote:
Marti Vaanio was dq'ed after failing drug test at 1984 Olympic 10k 2nd place. It was for steroids, and he explained that it must have been from reinfusing packed cells (blood doping) before the race. The packed cells were from the previous winter when he was using steroids for recovery.
Karlo Maanika was 2nd in 1980 Moscow 10k, and freely admitted using blood doping in later interviews.
The real question here is not that Viren blood doped in 1972/76 but how Yifter beat a guy on roids and who was also blood doping
Subway Surfers wrote:
The real question here is not that Viren blood doped in 1972/76 but how Yifter beat a guy on roids and who was also blood doping
Is that "Yifter the shifter" you're talking about?