Why do marathons allow guaranteed entry for sub elites with time qualifiers?

As a British 2.54.25 marathoner I really like the targets. It lets me get in some of races/have something to aspire to which is reasonable for me to get in the races (2.45). So I'm all for it regardless of the reason!

Ultra Bear wrote:

As a British 2.54.25 marathoner I really like the targets. It lets me get in some of races/have something to aspire to which is reasonable for me to get in the races (2.45). So I'm all for it regardless of the reason!

Yep -- once you hit your BQ in the states, there isn't a lot out there if you're nowhere near an OTQ. So you see that a sub-2:45 gets you into Berlin. A sub-2:35 gets you into NYC sub elite. A sub-2:31 gets you into Chicago ADC. & then places like NYC and Chicago had auto qualifiers that are usually a touch faster than Boston. It keeps you going in the sport.

It seems like a fine process. It gives 2:20ish to 3:00 (3:15-20ish for women) runners a place in a front corral and a chance to run a race they won't win or finish top-5 or 10 in like a local race. They're still going to travel & spend money. It spreads out some people before the masses roll through.

How is 2:50 sub elite? That is still hobby jogging.

Moo Goo wrote:

How is 2:50 sub elite? That is still hobby jogging.

Honestly, I just meant everyone without a name on their bib.

Funny tho there are all these commenters who need to announce that sub-elite is a formal, specific designation solely reserved for 2:10-2:30 runners...as if anyone outside their small group of 500-1000 people worldwide care/make the same distinction.

As another British guy, I got the chance to run as "Elite" at Brighton,

It is one week before London so all proper Elite/Sub Elite/serious hobby jogger (as you guys call them) are all focused on London as it is well London and also it is the English Athletics champs.

So Brighton obviously are trying to get some people at the front end of the race. (It picks up a lot of the failed London ballot entries)

So to be "Elite" I had to be under 2:45, (I was 2:44:55), still I got a "named" number, special tent with a cup of tea and biscuits before the start, ushered out to the front of the race, special tent at the end with tea/biscuits & beer.

Will never happen again, but I enjoyed the experience.

FWIW I was also running London the following week, so jogged around Brighton in 2:54 something and then run London the following weekend and came in the top 500 as it was the hot year!

Any marathon that fills up via lottery and doesn’t have a time qualifying option isn’t actually a race.

what's your best marathon time? try having a family, holding a full time job, and running sub 2:50. at least for most of the runners i have known few can do it.

this is a nice gesture on their part to support the sport and progression /improvement in the sport.

also, these runners are of known quality. As a race director, you know that they are serious runners and fit, and thus will likely not burden your emergency support crews and services by having medical problems or dropping out during the event.

I believe these sub elite runners are a safe and cheap investment for the race. So this offer attracts people to your race.

As a RD, I have noticed that the faster runners tend to wait as long as possible before entering a race. If you offer race day registration, a higher percentage of your top finishers will enter race day than one or two months before. (these are races without invited elites). Not sure what the time limits are on guaranteed entry, but offering that will appeal to sub elites as they can wait longer to enter.

Not sure exactly why faster sub elite runners want to wait as long as possible before entering. Perhaps they do not want to enter early and waste money and a hard effort if they do not start due to lack of fitness, injury, illness or the appearance of a different new more attractive race. Some sub elites scan the online posted lists of race registrants, and cherry pick races to enter at a late date based upon their chances of winning. Note: the elites have their entry fee comped, and bigger races use their names as PR, so no loss if they commit to a race farther in advance than they prefer.

Also I agree sub elites fill the gaps between the elites and the masses. At a local/regional level, these sub elites are well known and respected as the local top runners, so they may receive local media coverage. But more importantly word of mouth good PR for the race (among training partners, running club members, etc.) will spread about where these local top runners are racing, so the masses that respect them might enter that event each year.

Sub elites know they are likely not to win anything of value at those big events. Why run 2:30 at Chicago and finish 141st overall, when you could win smaller marathons with that effort? The guaranteed entry helps attract more of the rather limited numbers of sub elites to those larger races.

Sounds like the OP is a 304 guy!!!

Gives the organizers a reason to boast, marketing, as in “we are the race with most sub 3hour runners(or sub 2:50 for that matter) in the world (or nation)” that certainly attracts and should motivate those runner borderline on those times to cough up some nice 3 figure cash to enter the race and see how competitive they really are. It’s all in the presentation.

Unfortunately time qualifying doesn't allow for later entry in most cases I know of. That would've been nice! Like, if my wife gets a slot in Chicago, I'd run it as we'll travel there anyway. But they would ask me to submit my application at the same time as the lottery entrants.

dumb question but wrote:

I understand why NYC, Chicago, Tokyo etc would want to invite elite athletes to their races but why the guaranteed entry for sub-elites?

E.g. a 2:50 for men gets you entry into NYC...why is a sub-elite so valuable that they need guaranteed entry? Shouldn't they just do the lottery with the rest of the schlubs?

1. To attract them to your race, just like the time qualifying system for Boston attracts runners to Boston.

2. To enhance the prestige of your race by establishing it as a destination for more competitive athletes.

3. To reward those who are devoted to the sport and pursuing excellence, not just completing the distance.

Think about the difference between Marine Corps (the "People's Marathon") and Berlin or Boston.

250 isn't sub elite at the marathon but if you're better at the 10k yet run 250 that's elite potential.

It makes sense to offer some sort of guaranteed entry to faster runners. It’s not like the races are giving out free entry, just a guaranteed spot. Faster runners don’t typically want to plan out their marathons over a year in advance so it’s nice to be able to have a guaranteed spot. There are always privileges granted to people who are better at things.

It's also just a better use of the road capacity for the really over subscribed races, or a way of smoothing out the Bell curve.

NERunner053 wrote:

[quote]Ultra Bear wrote:

It gives 2:20ish to 3:00 (3:15-20ish for women) runners a place in a front corral and a chance to run a race they won't win or finish top-5 or 10 in like a local race. They're still going to travel & spend money. It spreads out some people before the masses roll through.

Absolutely ridiculous that the 3:15-20 women are put ahead of people who will be running faster. They will be just clogging up the road ahead of faster people during the race. Fair enough to separate people out into corrals based on the times you expect them to run with so many people running but do it by time only please; throwing a load of slower people in front of a load of faster people and starting them off at the same time is positively dangerous from a health and safety perspective of the race.