I understand why NYC, Chicago, Tokyo etc would want to invite elite athletes to their races but why the guaranteed entry for sub-elites?
E.g. a 2:50 for men gets you entry into NYC...why is a sub-elite so valuable that they need guaranteed entry? Shouldn't they just do the lottery with the rest of the schlubs?
Why do marathons allow guaranteed entry for sub elites with time qualifiers?
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No idea what the offical take on this is but the organisers are probably just respecting hard work and decent runners as they know it’s still pretty hard to get to that time. It also gives the small few a chance to go from sub elite to elite with easy access to big races.
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So to make sure the elites have a crowd they invite other to take part and hope they bring someone to watch, or in countries with good support to make sure the crowd don’t get bored between the time gap between the elites and masses.
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2:50 etc is hardly sub-elite in an open age category. But I've taken advantage because I'm fast enough.
Just think of it as frequent miles program. I've done the miles, others have talent, and we get to skip part of the line. -
Nice troll attempt, but nobody thinks 2:50 is sub elite. If you don't get your own water bottles on the course, you aren't sub elite. And that starts at 2:30 or 2:25, not 2:50.
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I always thought that they did this in order to make their race "deeper" by attracting a larger number of faster runners so that their race stood out from the others. However, now-a-days the vast majority of race participants really don't give a damn about how fast the top 25 run.
Perhaps it is a relic from a time when races and runners were given prestige for faster and deeper events -
I would by no means consider myself sub elite, but I'm fast enough to have snagged a guaranteed entry at several races, including NYC this year. I'm also an RD for a couple of small, local thons and halfs, where we comp top finishers future entry fees regardless of time.
From talking with other RD's and staff at some at larger races, it's a nod to those who don't have elite or sub elite talent, but who are willing to put in the miles and hard work it takes to hit those times. Sure, there are those who can hit those times with little effort, but I think there are far more "hard working above average Joes" who take advantage of this than there are lazy elites or sub elites who can hit the time no problem so they can fun run a race. -
A combination of what others have said already. Plus there isn't much downside as there are probably only a hundred? runners (depending on which race) actually taking advantage of that
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Isn't it just to fill up the roads between the elites and the rest of the field? If you didn't allow this you would have pretty much empty roads between 2:20 and 3:00.
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So there is something to see for the hour after the elites finish before everyone else starts to finish. If it is all the same, an RD would prefer to have a sub 2:50 runner over yet another 4+ hour finisher.
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DC101GDub wrote:
I always thought that they did this in order to make their race "deeper" by attracting a larger number of faster runners so that their race stood out from the others. However, now-a-days the vast majority of race participants really don't give a damn about how fast the top 25 run.
this is the reason. Runners look at events where there are a lot of runners who are as slow or fast as they are. With lottery the field would get deeper in the slower end but it has plenty of runners anyway. By guaranteeing faster runners an entry, it keeps the reputation of that event up. It's not important for events like New York because it has become such an institution but for most of the city marathons it is important to have a deeper race like you mentioned. A marathon is a competition also for those 2:50 guys in a same way that is for the 2:20 guys and they want to have a pack of runners to run with. In my opinion it's good to have standards to aim for. It keeps up the motivation and kind of tells what is a good marathon time. -
This is such an annoying thread. Why does this board feel the need to dehumanize the sub-sub elite class of hobbyist runners in the 2:30 - 3:00 range? This class is truly the financial backbone of the entire sport. They have full-time jobs, expendable income and care enough about the sport to spend hard $$ to chase goals and improve.
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Why do attractive women get into clubs without waiting in line or paying for admission?
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one use is to rank age groupers world wide. i was just barely national class in my 30s but ranked 37th in the world at the marathon at 61 (3:13 in chicago, mid teens ranking for the 5k and 10k). that is only because i never ran until my low 30s. they use the age group results from the big 6 marathons because they assume the best age groupers enter those races. i don't know if they use all certified courses or not. if they didn't the results would be tainted for sure. it is a world wide ranking and i only found out about it because friends sent me email.
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Free advertising. There's always stories in the local media before or after a race featuring a local sub-elite runner and the race they are running or just ran. When people decide to run their 1st marathon, they may pick the same race because they heard of it or the local sub-elite ran it.
I actually picked my first marathon based on where a local sub-elite ran. -
2:50 is more like the local small town fast guy than sub-elite.
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what time do you need to qualify as a sub-elite? personally, i think anybody with the olympic B standard should be titled as a sub-elite athlete. i don't think races like NYC, Chicago, Tokyo, etc should get into major marathons for free, but i do believe some of the local marathons should give out free entry for sub-elites to encourage more competition in the sport.
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dumb question but wrote:
I understand why NYC, Chicago, Tokyo etc would want to invite elite athletes to their races but why the guaranteed entry for sub-elites?
E.g. a 2:50 for men gets you entry into NYC...why is a sub-elite so valuable that they need guaranteed entry? Shouldn't they just do the lottery with the rest of the schlubs?
That zone just outside of sub elite is a money maker. People in that zone work full time, are willing to travel, spend money at expos etc. If you can get a big group on the sub 2:50 zone its attracts more in that zone. It also raises the reputation of the race substantially. -
People are getting caught up in the phrase sub-elite rather than what the OP was getting at: why do marathons care about people who run 2:30-3:00 instead of just lumping them in with everyone else?
I disagree it's about money. In fact, I imagine those runners spend the least money at the expo. The 4 hour folks are spending a bunch on random things, many times because it's one of the few marathons they will ever run. For the 2:30 guy, this is just another race.
I do buy the argument it's to fill the roads with people between the elites and the rest. I imagine that's good for spectators, volunteers, etc. -
Are guys in the 2:30 -40 range getting comped at many races? Pretty sure you need to be faster for most races and more like 2:20 for majors. No male at 2:50 is getting comped and if they are the race is making a bad investment.
I think there is some draw when a race has very fast runners for future years. Or CIM says they have XX Olympic trials qualifiers. But I would assume that tails off quickly once you get past the 2:20s.
