This is the old worst NFL team against Alabama or whatever talk.
The answer here is that as a team in D1, both boys and girls would be last. They would all be quite back in D2 and D3, as well.
How many of these kids have raced a 10K? You think they've run a 30-1 on the roads? You might check that.
How many of these kids will we see in college? Will this be the first year ever more than one, or two, actually show up anywhere after next spring? Get real.
If these seven runners ran as a team they would win the NCAA D1 Cross Country Championships
1. Katelyn Tuohy
2. Marlee Starliper
3. Katelynne Hart
4. Sydney Thorvaldson
5. Brooke Rauber
6. Claire Walters
7. Taylor Ewert
Nice thought, but none of them could even stick with Arkansas' 4th.
Add up their scores next year and they wouldn't win.
For 2018, add up the top 5 frosh women and they score 160 for 4th. Top 5 frosh men add up to 116 for a tie at 2nd. This includes international runners and redshirts. Look through the results and try to find any of the men that would have been considered one of the top 7 high schoolers last year.
Bruh_Moment_Official wrote:
See title: The top 7 boys and girls forego NXN and FL in favor of entering as the HS All-Star team at NCAAs. How do they perform?
Boys: My Projection: 30th- Not last, but certainly not enough talent to post a top team performance.
1. Nico Young
2. Cole Sprout
3. Leo Daschbach
4. Ryan Schoppe
5. Josh Methner
6. Evan Holland
7. Matt Strangio
Girls: 11th TONS of talent here. Headed by Tuohy likely posting top-10 finish and possibly multiple all-americans, the girls perform highly. May be in part to less of a descrepancy between the girls distances and the guys distances.
1. Katelyn Tuohy
2. Katelynne Hart
3. London Culbreath
4. Brynn Brown
5. Marlee Starliper
6. Sydney Thorvaldson
7. Lauren Ping
Grant Fisher and Casey Clinger are the 2 most dominant runners of the past 6 or 7 years(excluding hunter who didn't go D1). Fisher got 17th and Clinger got 24th freshman year...obviously with an extra year of training and fitness from HS senior year. I have a very hard time believing they would do any better than them.
tarckstar wrote:
This is the old worst NFL team against Alabama or whatever talk.
The answer here is that as a team in D1, both boys and girls would be last. They would all be quite back in D2 and D3, as well.
How many of these kids have raced a 10K? You think they've run a 30-1 on the roads? You might check that.
How many of these kids will we see in college? Will this be the first year ever more than one, or two, actually show up anywhere after next spring? Get real.
The Texas women averaged OVER 22 MINUTES for 6k at NCAAs last year. You are ignorant as hell if you don't think the top high school girls could do better than that.
The byu fanboys and age cheating apologists state that a 25 year old has zero advantage over an 18 year old. Thus, the high schoolers should win easily.
What if you take the top 7 hs runners over the top 7 true freshmen because the latter have had to adjust to college training and usually underperform as freshmen because of fatigue and become much, much better by seniors? In reality, when you look at track results, you usually see lots of sub 4s for freshmen, and extrapolating to 10k xc, the years of high mileage and tempos would allow them to destroy even a very, very talented lot of hs seniors and juniors. After all, the collegians get four to eight years (BYU and schools with a lot of foreign runners) to make the top twenty tiers of hs runners, some of them undertrained, to get really good.
Stairs wrote:
If these seven runners ran as a team they would win the NCAA D1 Cross Country Championships
1. Katelyn Tuohy
2. Marlee Starliper
3. Katelynne Hart
4. Sydney Thorvaldson
5. Brooke Rauber
6. Claire Walters
7. Taylor Ewert
There is no reason to leave Dudek off this, you as dumb if you did.
... as a team in D1, both boys and girls would be last.
The best HS girls would almost certainly be in the top 15 teams and there's a very good chance they could be in the top 8 if they didn't get rattled by being behind more runners than ever before. It's too tough to compare XC times, but check out some of their track times. Having a #1 at 9:01 / 15:37 for 3k / 5k, a 4th runner at 9:21 for 3k and a fifth at 16:25 for 5k is definitely top 15 talent and probably even better than that. Since the XC distance only goes up by 1k in college, and since girls are normally closer to full potential than boys are at age 18, it's only a slight stretch to envision the best HS girls performing very favorably at the 6k distance against older competition.
The boys, OTOH, are at much more of a disadvantage against older runners. In fact, just that one year between HS age and freshman year is very significant, not only in terms of physical maturation, but also in terms of adjusting to the longer race distances and the likely increase in the weekly workload. Some freshmen eat it up, whether as a result of sheer talent or in response to the new training alongside other good runners, and those guys perform superbly by the time NCAAs roll around (Luke Puskedra, Chris Derrick, etc.). But others get run down or simply aren't as good at the 8k / 10k distances yet. If we look at track times like we did on the distaff side, a team of the best HS boys looks like the ability is there to get a very respectable finish against college teams. But those mile / 2 mile times (and even XC times like Methner's 13:49.86 at Detweiller), while amazing for HS, don't necessarily extrapolate to success at distances twice as far or farther. There are even some college teams (who have adjusted at least somewhat to the longer race distances) that have 5 guys running sub-8:10 for 3k (similar to the top 5 HS boys) and who don't even make the NCAA meet, so it's unrealistic to rely on those performances to extrapolate up to a distance of @ 30 minutes with grass, hills, sharp turns and maybe uneven footing or mud. But it's mostly the vast increase in physical development between age 18 and age 20-22 that makes it unlikely the HS boys would do as well against college competition as their shorter distance times might lead you to believe. Of course that depends on their natural maturity and ability to handle the longer race. Who really knows? Maybe this year's best HS guys are a bunch of Craig Virgins and would have 5 All-Americans and challenge for the win. But I wouldn't bet on that. If they beat more than a couple of teams at NCAAs, I'd be impressed with their composure and their ability to run 10k XC.
Bruh_Moment_Official wrote:
See title: The top 7 boys and girls forego NXN and FL in favor of entering as the HS All-Star team at NCAAs. How do they perform?
Boys: My Projection: 30th- Not last, but certainly not enough talent to post a top team performance.
1. Nico Young
2. Cole Sprout
3. Leo Daschbach
4. Ryan Schoppe
5. Josh Methner
6. Evan Holland
7. Matt Strangio
Girls: 11th TONS of talent here. Headed by Tuohy likely posting top-10 finish and possibly multiple all-americans, the girls perform highly. May be in part to less of a descrepancy between the girls distances and the guys distances.
1. Katelyn Tuohy
2. Katelynne Hart
3. London Culbreath
4. Brynn Brown
5. Marlee Starliper
6. Sydney Thorvaldson
7. Lauren Ping
Daschbach is injured so he wouldn't fare too well. Extremely unlikely the boys would place last. They would have zero pressure on them and thus would end up racing quite well relative to themselves.
The girls would do great. For sure in the top half of the teams.
jus sayin you know wrote:
Daschbach is injured so he wouldn't fare too well. Extremely unlikely the boys would place last. They would have zero pressure on them and thus would end up racing quite well relative to themselves.
The girls would do great. For sure in the top half of the teams.
I don't know man, that's a crazy environment to throw them into. Given the jump from 5k to 10k, the change from running out front to being packed in with guys all older and more experienced than you, and don't forget they wouldn't have an experienced college coach to guide them through the whole event. It's far more likely they'd under perform relative to their talent.
It really should be an 8k for both
Bonkers wrote:
jus sayin you know wrote:
Daschbach is injured so he wouldn't fare too well. Extremely unlikely the boys would place last. They would have zero pressure on them and thus would end up racing quite well relative to themselves.
The girls would do great. For sure in the top half of the teams.
I don't know man, that's a crazy environment to throw them into. Given the jump from 5k to 10k, the change from running out front to being packed in with guys all older and more experienced than you, and don't forget they wouldn't have an experienced college coach to guide them through the whole event. It's far more likely they'd under perform relative to their talent.
How do 13:55 5000 guys generally fare at nationals? That's roughly where the fitness is/was for the top 3-4 before Daschbach got hurt.
The real comparison we have is their track times. The top 7 high schoolers typically run 8:40-8:50 while the top college guys run 7:40-7:50 3k. 140 college guys ran 8:10 or better indoor in the 3k which is about where the 5th scoring high schooler woukd ve based on his 3200. Those are generous comparisons because HS runners will fall much further behind over 10k.
reer wrote:
Bruh_Moment_Official wrote:
Girls: 11th TONS of talent here. Headed by Tuohy likely posting top-10 finish and possibly multiple all-americans, the girls perform highly. May be in part to less of a descrepancy between the girls distances and the guys distances.
1. Katelyn Tuohy
2. Katelynne Hart
3. London Culbreath
4. Brynn Brown
5. Marlee Starliper
6. Sydney Thorvaldson
7. Lauren Ping
How do you not have the returning FL champion on your list? I have no idea who #4 and #6 are, so take them off. Also isn't there a girl who beat Hart last weekend at NXN regionals who's missing? I guess it's impossible to answer your question when didn't attempt to select the top 7.
Are you ignorant, or what?
#4 ran a 9:57 2-mile last year.
She was also dominating every girl in Texas including the top finishers at state, by over 45+ seconds. She missed district/regionals/state because of an injury, but she will be back at Nike South regionals. Even though she missed out a lot, I still wouldn't be shocked to see her top 5--- and if she was on form, she would probably win the race by at least 30 seconds.
LOL u mad? wrote:
reer wrote:
How do you not have the returning FL champion on your list? I have no idea who #4 and #6 are, so take them off. Also isn't there a girl who beat Hart last weekend at NXN regionals who's missing? I guess it's impossible to answer your question when didn't attempt to select the top 7.
Are you ignorant, or what?
#4 ran a 9:57 2-mile last year.
She was also dominating every girl in Texas including the top finishers at state, by over 45+ seconds. She missed district/regionals/state because of an injury, but she will be back at Nike South regionals. Even though she missed out a lot, I still wouldn't be shocked to see her top 5--- and if she was on form, she would probably win the race by at least 30 seconds.
I think you would have to include Dudek, Masciarelli, Walters and Rauber, just to name a few, before you include Culbreath or Ping. based on this season it would be Dudek and Walters
Predictor wrote:
The real comparison we have is their track times. The top 7 high schoolers typically run 8:40-8:50 while the top college guys run 7:40-7:50 3k. 140 college guys ran 8:10 or better indoor in the 3k which is about where the 5th scoring high schooler woukd ve based on his 3200. Those are generous comparisons because HS runners will fall much further behind over 10k.
The top 3 HS boys were in about 8:00 3K shape, or around top-50 vs NCAA D1 men. If their 5th man is equivalent to NCAA 140th place that's a solid team. 50-55-60-140-150 then add another 100 points overall moving up to 10k and you'd have 555 points, which would be 23rd place. If you added 200 points overall moving up to 10k they'd be at 655 or one spot ahead of Georgetown. Sounds about right to me.
First, what makes you think an 8:40 gets you to 8 flat? Arkansas was 30th today. They had 5 guys run 7:52-8:09 in track. Their current team woukd crush a high school team in a 10k.