Why do many sub elite runners underestimate the treadmill?

Here is a good incline calculator.

https://42.195km.net/e/treadsim/

An example would be running at 10% incline. Running at 8 minute pace would be equivalent to 5:30 pace flat. The difference is 2.5 minutes. If you are running at 10 minute pace, the equivalent would be 6:54 pace or 2:54 difference.

A simple rule I use is if your effort is less than 7 minutes per mile, then add 15 seconds for every 1% increase in incline. If your effort is over 7 minute pace, then add 20 seconds.

If you really want to get serious and do a lot of training on the treadmill at incline, run five minutes at a certain pace and check your heartrate. Change the incline and pace using the above guide and run for another 5 minutes and check your heartrate. That will tell you whether you need to adjust the pace you are running on the incline.

i did wrote:

plus the faster on a treadmill you go, the slower it actually is if you actually went outside

Then just run at a 1 percent incline if you're running faster. I remember reading that a 1% incline at 8 - 11 mph had the same exertion level as running outside.

I find hard workouts on a treadmill much harder as I overheat hard

Tried a 4x3mi workout on a treadmill but gave up halfway through the second rep and was already soaking wet with sweat. Next day tried it outside and ended up running faster than goal pace feeling good.

Ggggg wrote:

I never got to talk to an elite long distance runner, so all my conversations were people who run sub 3 or around 2:40. They all tend to underestimate the treadmill, and even on a disgusting cold windy day they run outside, as though a workout on a treadmill is a wasted workout. Why is that? I run both outside and on a treadmill, and mechanically I can’t see any significant difference. The treadmill is great and can give you great workouts and great shape. I’m not saying only treadmill, but why not use this great asset? They tend to say that they would only run on it as a last option. Is this some kind of showing off by sub elite people?

To call myself sub elite would be a bit of a stretch, however..I think it really gets boiled down to just wanting to run outside, explore the trails, streets, different terrains..

I live in a region to where winter can be rough, but I force myself outside, and honestly, some days I really enjoy the cold (minus the strong wind gusts, that sucks!) So I think generally speaking, it's just the runner's adventurous nature..

I am getting a treadmill though this winter, with a young child at home, leaving the house for over an hour isn't always ideal, but now just being down in the garage will make some weekend treks easier. Definitely will avoid any potential slips on ice too.

Its cold and snowy where I live, but still prefer outside, because I overheat on treadmills as well. I also get bored as hell. When I travel down south however, I find that I am just as bored on the plain concrete sidewalks with strip malls as I am on a treadmill, and perhaps more hot outside, so I could see if I lived somewhere scorching hot, it might be nice to have. Where I am, all you need is spikes, lots of layers, head lamp and reflective clothes and outside in the winter is just as nice as outside in the summer.

sweatmill wrote:

On a treadmill at any given pace, 3 things are guaranteed:

a) I sweat like a whore in church

b) I feel like I'm running much faster

c) I breathe like I'm running much slower

a+b don't match with c. Something's up.

This perfectly describes my experience. I dislike running on the treadmill because I feel like I'm working too hard, and also not nearly hard enough, all at the same time.

I mainly train on the treadmill and my times have been lousy this year.

I had two hernia surgeries:

One in April that was an open incision for hiatal hernia

The other was 4 weeks ago and was laparoscopic. One incisional hernia up top, one umbilical hernia, and two inguinal hernias with mesh installed.

I was cleared to run after 2 weeks and have run twice a week, but no further than 3 miles. I will be running the Turkey Trot 10k on Thanksgiving day; 5 weeks from surgery.

I just turned 52 and the furthest I've run is 10 miles (outside). My time was about 2.5 hours.

My 10k time is usually around 1:08, but used to be under an hour.

My 5k time is around the 30 minute marker.

Borrrrring wrote:

Boring treadmill

Boring thread

You are both boring and s#itty. Not a good combo.

i did wrote:

i did a great 13 miler on the treadmill once (for my standards) and then the next day i tried running outdoors. running outdoors was so much harder, i had to try harder to go fast and i felt very wobbly the whole time. running on a treadmill is not that great. it's way easier to do something on a treadmill because it's all flat and it's much easier to go at faster speeds on a treadmill. sure you may break a sweat, but it's still easier.

You're run the next day was hard because you were burnt out from the 13.

You're welcome.

Hog wrote:

I remember when Ken Martin did his 2-hour long runs on his treadmill, for quite a number of weeks and placed 2nd in NY City marathon, with 2:07. If you can handle 20-mile runs on a treadmill, 26 miles in a race will fly by.

Is that who Jack Daniels talks about in his book in the treadmill section? I could never find out who that was.

a little knowledge goes a long way....... wrote:

Here is a good incline calculator.

https://42.195km.net/e/treadsim/

An example would be running at 10% incline. Running at 8 minute pace would be equivalent to 5:30 pace flat. The difference is 2.5 minutes. If you are running at 10 minute pace, the equivalent would be 6:54 pace or 2:54 difference.

A simple rule I use is if your effort is less than 7 minutes per mile, then add 15 seconds for every 1% increase in incline. If your effort is over 7 minute pace, then add 20 seconds.

Thank you very much to you and to the other posters for the nice answers to my question about how to get around max speed limitations!

I use the treadmill year round, I've yet to notice any difference between the treadmill and running outside. I typically run faster outdoors but it is honestly the same unless you're running at an elite level. Same calories burned, nearly the same bio mechanics, wind resistance is negligible until you're running faster than 6 minute miles, but how many of us are planning on doing that for a full marathon?

Who did the research for your chart? I think I know that person and did he get credit for it?

At least in my town a guy did almost the whole training for the olympics marathon on a treadmill in his garage and lost the gold medal by less than two minutes. So it hasn't been an issue for me to run on treadmills because much better runners can do it. I think that those runners who cannot do it have some serious mental issues. They don't feel comfortable when they are alone. They need excitement or at least tv or music because they don't like themselves very much.

I think the real problem people have with treadmills is that they set them to a too-fast speed (either because the treadmill isn't calibrated correctly or they set an aspirational easy pace) and then think it's boring because they are getting very tired after 5 minutes and it's only been 5 minutes!

or alternatively select an appropriate pace, but don't realize when running outside that they don't immediately run that pace and it feels harder because they don't let the pace come to them

Bump up, same question I have.

is it possible to use this calculator:

It's known as the "dreadmill" for a reason...

First of all, 2:40 male marathoner is in no way a sub-elite. I'm a minute faster than than that and am still just a club runner, barely competitive in local races. There are guys with full time day jobs who can just outclass me on the race day leaving no chances, even if they bonk I won't catch up those 10-15 minutes. It can even be argued that 2:40 is not sub-elite for females ffs.

I have a home treadmill and use it a lot during winter for easy and moderate running. Doing 'workouts' on it is not sustainable. There are two reasons for that. First, the lowest I can keep my home gym while keeping the rest of the house is about 55 degrees, and even at that with a large fan on I would overheat and be drenched in sweat. Second, the higher end speeds are not sustainable. Marathon pace - both by feel and by footpod measurements - can be 10.2 mph setting one day, 10.6 later that same day when the motor heats up and 10.4 the other day; it's still somewhat usable, but everything faster is even more all over the place with top setting of 12 mph sometimes giving actual pace around 5:30/mile, so lower than my 5K pace. My treadmill is a 3hp model, retailing for around $1000.

These two factors combined, I would always at least try to do a 'workout' outside or on indoor track and only use treadmill as last resort. Long runs are also undesirable as sweating increases exponentially and becomes unbearable at 80-90 min range. But unless you call all runs 'workouts', I won't hesitate to jump on it for an easy one. Of course, running outside is more fun and generally feels easier, but you have to get through that part of getting out of the house into the terrible dark and cold before it becomes fun and comfortable. Also, safer and no snow on treadmill.