Unnamed NOP pro on Mary Cain- “she’s such a wuss.”

The masters thesis comment was strange. She did give other legitimate ways she's privately advocated for female runners to show that talking to the media like Lauren and Kara isn't the only way athletes can make change. It looks like she's getting attacked by trolls who posted the same comments verbatim in this thread here.

In case anyone didn't see it, she did write a comment saying that she didn't think of Mary as a wuss and wouldn't have said that. So who knows. It seems unfair to assume it was her based on the limited information we have, and I think Mary should have known better than to throw her teammates under the bus because they weren't in a power position. Given the current climate, she had to have known that would create space for internet trolls to harass and bully her teammates in the name of defending her. I feel bad about what happened to her at NOP, but this seemed careless and over the top. It makes me feel a little guilty that I now sympathize with her less.

There's a major difference in the tone of the conversation on here vs Lauren's and Kara's IG pages. The one female who left a negative comment calling Lauren out on her IG post about her New York Times article ended up getting owned by people drinking the Oiselle kool-aid. I mean, this coming from a white dude "Please stop telling women to be quiet and invisible. I want to hear and listen. Dismissing an opinion because it misses unnamed nuances is a tactic that men have used since forever to silence women..." lol.

I wonder what the general consensus on this issue with Mary Cain really is. The more moderate one we see on here (yes, I would at least consider it more balanced and thoughtful), or the uber progressive one on Lauren's page. She's practically hailed as a hero and goddess on there.

Perhaps her parents continue to support Mary's narcissism because they may have been a part of the cause.

conflicted wrote:

I wonder what the general consensus on this issue with Mary Cain really is.

Wow! You are way more optimistic than I. I read these threads and have a hard time seeing any consensus. To me, it looks like everyone who reads these stories thinks, "I knew it! Mary Cain isn't running any more because [insert favorite explanation for what's wrong with America]. " It seems everyone wants a nice, neat familiar story: She was done in by millennials or old-white guys or Alberto or girl biology or whatever....

I don't see a lot of room for consensus between those stories. But maybe I'm just another guy with a story he loves to tell.

I'm hoping Alexa E will finally break 4:01, so we can free ourselves from our obsession with Mary Cain.

I fear this is not 80's Disney movies anymore where everything is clearcut with the nice princess, prince charming, the funny and friendly 7 short guys against the evil witch and her army of evil mignons.

In a toxic relationship, there usually are PARTS of "the problem" in most implied persons. People like clearcut categorisation of good vs evil, but this is not how it works. Depressed people tend to be self centered at some point, which often lead to calling out even people who try to help them for not helping them or sympathizing enough.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying this is happening right now. But as much as I want to hate Salazar (what's not to dislike about the guy?), and as much as I believe in the power of statistics (if as a manager/coach you lead more than one third of people having worked for you to resignment or burnout, chances are you are both a bad manager/coach and a toxic person), I still can't believe 100% of the responsibility of what happens to a person is to be found in other persons. I either don't believe it's entirely Mary's (or Kara's, or Steve's, or...) fault.

Perhaps I'm not so optimistic...I mainly agree with you. There are so many opinions floating around. When I read this thread, I see a lot of people asking questions (some fair, some not) about Mary's intentions and personal responsibility. In contrast, when I look at Lauren's page, I see exactly what you pointed out and it's pretty frustrating. Reading all of the "you're so brave" comments demanding full support of Mary, Lauren, Kara etc makes it seem like I'm one of the very few who isn't 100% supportive of them, and that makes me feel kind of guilty, like I should fully embrace Mary as a victim of abuse and Lauren/Lara's view that this is a male problem. I fear the sentiment on Lauren's page is more representative of how most people feel about this issue, because that would mean I'm just a negative person in the minority. But yes, it's hard to know if there is a clear majority. Reading comments on here somehow makes me feel like less of a d bag who is part of the reason why people like Mary often don't come forward. I think some people are bringing up criticisms worth exploring.

at the end of the day,

it is he says and she says.

its negative.

people are too sensitive and weak.

grow a pair, man and woman up

go for a run.

take action and quit talking and crying.

winners don't cry. winners go for the run.

why can't you cry on the run?

ellen_78910

this is the ultimate deflection. you post these things without acknowledging that you were mary’s team mate during her time at NOP. note the difference between your deflection and kara’s apology. you only care about your public image.

1d

shannonrowbury

@ellen_78910 that is unfair and mean spirited. You don’t know me. You don’t know what I’ve gone through. If you really care about making sports better for women, you shouldn’t be attacking them.

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ellen_78910

@shannonrowbury i just don’t want people like you to get away with the kind of treatment Mary and many many other female athletes endured while at NOP and everywhere. “mary’s being a wuss”. sound familiar? you think you can sweep all that under the carpet by touting all you’ve done for women’s sports, when in reality you shouldn’t have posted this at all under the given circumstances and instead opted for an apology to mary.

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shannonrowbury

@ellen_78910 I am sorry you are so angry but I would also like to clarify a couple things.

1) Mary wasn’t the only athlete to suffer abuse. Just like Kara said, we were all trying to survive. What happened to Mary is horrible, and it happens too often to too many.

2) I never thought Mary was a wuss and I never would have said that. I always thought Mary was a young girl thrust too soon into the professional spotlight. I felt sorry for her because I know that I could never have handled the intensity of training or of expectations at her age. In terms of reading her teammates phones, I don’t know if she meant me or Treniere, but I never ever thought she was a wuss.

gramz wrote:

ellen_78910

Whoever that is, she sure has a bee in her bonnet about Rowbury. She comments a fair amount on that thread. It's interesting to see how many people call her out for assuming she knows what happened, or even that Cain was talking about Rowbury.

Isn’t it a little creepy that Mary was reading her teammates’ text messages on their phone?

Was she doing that when her teammates were out for their warm down?

Perhaps wrote:

Perhaps her parents continue to support Mary's narcissism because they may have been a part of the cause.

Of course they were.

This whole episode is a giant failure of liberal parenting of a talented child athlete. What parent allows their kid to move across the country at 17 or 18 to move in with a group of egoistic runners with narcissistic tendencies to be coached by an OCD hairy guy from Boston? Fast forward to today and what parent doesn't offer guidance to a 23 year old who failed that transparently blaming others for your (their) failure isn't such a great move? Compensation much?

Salazar didn't fail MC. Track didn't fail MC. Mary failed and her parents failed her too.

Yeah, I don't understand why a good portion (not all) of LRC posters go to extremes and take sides with these things. Seems to me NOP was a den of morons. A cancerous blight of questionable legality and poor personalities. I have trouble getting behind any of them.

As far as the current situation goes, I think Mary would've been better off if she left the OP-ED as a standalone and refrained from storytelling.

What does Lauren have to do with any of this?

She has nothing to do with this. She wrote an oped on women’s health but has nothing to do with NOP/Mar Cain.

babby wrote:

Yeah, I don't understand why a good portion (not all) of LRC posters go to extremes and take sides with these things. Seems to me NOP was a den of morons. A cancerous blight of questionable legality and poor personalities. I have trouble getting behind any of them.

As far as the current situation goes, I think Mary would've been better off if she left the OP-ED as a standalone and refrained from storytelling.

This is what I've been thinking the whole time reading this thread. The truth is always somewhere in the middle, and I put the blame a lot closer to Alsal but don't completely exonerate the Cain's from this either.

What Mary did was brave to come out and speak the truth, but now she's making mistakes and causing problems for the women that went through the same things she did on a lot of levels.

Lol. Never engage in debate with anonymous people on the internet.

Blame for what? Did somebody die and we haven't been told? Cain was a crybaby and a drain on the team. The team was the most successful in the world.

Blame is bad wrote:

Blame for what? Did somebody die and we haven't been told? Cain was a crybaby and a drain on the team. The team was the most successful in the world.

Somebody needs to die for blame to be placed? The team was successful but has been disbanded as a result of how they conducted themselves, so as it stand now I wouldn't say they are too successful.

Do you need to lay down?

Dnns wrote:

No, Kara was gone by then.

I have thoughts about the whole interview.

Firstly I’m sad for Mary. She was so young and naive. She also seemed really lonely. She was kind of a nerd in a high school full of children of New York elite, and may not have had a ton of friends at that point. She thought her team members were her friends and only realized later that was not the case. I think she wanted to be a great runner. But more than anything I think she wanted to feel like she belonged somewhere. And Alberto took advantage of that.

that's exactly how i felt after reading more about her and the entire story. she was an incredibly gifted athlete who was ostracized by teammates (that's common when there's someone who is that much more advanced than the others) and was definitely lonely in high school. her parents, who like most parents have no expertise in young athletic development, were probably taken advantage of by a series of sh!tty private coaches who only heaped on more pressure and isolated her further. at least in MA, it's very common for talented runners to be ruined by slimy private coaches.

she was so hungry for a social team environment that she jumped at the nop, and she was then placed into a team environment that isn't meant for a 17 year old girl. couple that with a coach who's unfit to coach women, and you had a disaster.

Ms wuss wrote:

Thanks for posting that wrote:

Whoever that is, she sure has a bee in her bonnet about Rowbury. She comments a fair amount on that thread. It's interesting to see how many people call her out for assuming she knows what happened, or even that Cain was talking about Rowbury.

I think maybe we can all agree ellen is a troll?

FIFY