Tuohy and other top Runners still undecided on college, WHY?

ncrecuvuer wrote:

Not exactly, probably only the schools she took an official on, and that's a maybe. At some point, you have to start worrying about depth and if you don't have a ton of money, getting 4 great, but not super elite runners on 30-35% may be better in the long run, especially in XC. And if you're a top program runners will take the 30-35% if you provide appeal. If you put all the stock into 1 runner and wait too long, these 4 great, but not super elite runners take 50%-100% elsewhere.

I agree with the above. The coaches that recruited my child seemed to expect athletes to be down to 2 or maybe 3 schools at this point and down to the 5 for official visit early in the senior year of high school. They wanted to know the other schools and when official visits were scheduled.

While some top ranked womens' teams at this time of the season just days before the championship seems to get the top recruits like #1 Arkansas and #2 Stanford while other teams may be ranked lower than their typical recruiting class would indicate they should be such as Oregon, Colorado, and New Mexico. Some teams like Michigan State and other teams other seasons seem to be able to do well without signing the very top runners like these other schools. This year's articles about the B1G Championship and Great Lakes Regional talk about how deep Michigan State is this season with talent. They won the Great Lakes Regional sitting out one of their top runners. If Johnson had run and if Farrell was running her prior times Michigan State would had 7 runners finishing in the top 20 to 25. While Michigan State is not a favorite to win the championship this year it managed to win in 2014 with another deep team that came from mostly Michigan HS talent that was not likely considered elite at that national level when recruited. Other teams are also successful with this level of recruits that may be more likely to create a deep talent pool.

So while any team will likely recruit a national elite level runner they need to form a team deep with talent as it takes 5 very good runners to win and probably at least 2 more since every season some will be out with or slowed by injuries. Just look at Wisconsin men winning the B1G Championship then coming in 5th at the Great Lakes Regional and missing the NCAA championship.

Career Planning wrote:

boye wrote:

Virtually no one pays the 'rack' rate at any school especially Ivies. Although they do not give athletic scholarships, after any merit scholarship money an athlete could receive, an athlete could be awarded money from the 'special talent' pot of money schools (Ivies and D3 schools) use for talented musicians, artists, authors, quarterbacks or distance runners. I would bet Tuohy could go to an Ivy for very little out of pocket money.

Ivys do not offer any merit scholarships. All aid is need based only. Now because of the endowments some families with ~100k income and without significant assets beyond house may qualify for some need based aid if their child goes Ivy (although this is a bit school/year dependent).

Stanford offers only athletic merit scholarships.

Some aid??

Every single Ivy has endowments in the multi billions.

Ivy's offer significant need based aid.

If your from a family making under 100k you can expect near 75% full tuition-r&b. Single parent, 50-60k incime = full. 100-200k expect a descending scale 50% down to 0%.

....However, I believe Dr Tuohey will have to pay full Ivy tuition if his daughter attends one.

Since she will dominate individually anywhere she goes, she may choose based purely on academics snd not choosing to be on a powerhouse xc team.

Ivy-based choices with very strong teams?

Harvard or Columbia.

But if I were betting 20 dollars with someone I would lean towards her choosing Stanford or maybe UVA

SDSU Aztec wrote:

webby wrote:

One possibility for Tuohy is that she isn't counting on an athletic scholarship -- either because she is considering a professional contract or because she is thinking of competing for an Ivy. If the latter, she would probably get the official announcement at the beginning of December, and would have a letter from the coach telling her prospects look good, and possibly a verbal commitment.

Why would she consider paying for an Ivy league school when she can go to Stanford, which has a great running program, for free? That makes no sense.

After seeing what happened to Mary Cain, she might want to take a pass on the pro contract.

Most people graduate from the Ivys debt-free.

Dear Sir / Madam,

You need to investigate the financial “need” and aid with regard to Ivy star quarterbacks and basketball players as compared with need and aid given to a similarly financially situated non-athletic student.

Keep the spotlight on the Lori L. Types and not this form of cheating which most surely benefits the institutions!

Duh. Poor people attend and rich people attend. Upper middle class people typically don't attend. So your point is true but misleading. Smart kids get admitted and their parents are smart so the ones who would have to take on debt take a pass instead.

Pointer of points wrote:

Duh. Poor people attend and rich people attend. Upper middle class people typically don't attend. So your point is true but misleading. Smart kids get admitted and their parents are smart so the ones who would have to take on debt take a pass instead.

I like that you preface your post with, "Duh," and then make a completely false statement. What do you consider upper middle class? By my definition (top 5th but not top 1%), most people at the Ivies are upper middle class.

Stanford is not an Ivy.

NC State Vet School is a land and has a state contracts. Her chances of getting in are almost zero. In contrast Cornell's vet school is private, better, and she would have a better chance of acceptance.

* Land grant, state contracts with NC and bordering states.

It makes sense to use normal definitions of words and a little bit of math. If you had a cup of water and divided into the middle, lower, and upper portions, it would make sense to say the top 20% is upper, the bottom 20% is lower, and the remaining 60% is the middle. So the upper middle would be the part from 50% to 80%. 70% of the students at Brown come from the upper 20% of income earners. So no, middle class is not well represented since there is a decent percentage coming from the lower class.

The Pew Report lists upper class as starting at $187k. 2/3 of the student body at Brown come from the upper class.

What about the balance sheet side of things?

Ken Griffith $2,000,000,000 assets in fine art.

Middle class: picture of dogs playing poker

Does the FAFSA and CSS Profile ask about LLCs and off-shore pirate cove tax dodges?

Math wizzer wrote:

It makes sense to use normal definitions of words and a little bit of math. If you had a cup of water and divided into the middle, lower, and upper portions, it would make sense to say the top 20% is upper, the bottom 20% is lower, and the remaining 60% is the middle. So the upper middle would be the part from 50% to 80%. 70% of the students at Brown come from the upper 20% of income earners. So no, middle class is not well represented since there is a decent percentage coming from the lower class.

Wrong again. You/Pointer said that "people from the upper middle class don't typically attend" -- just rich and poor. The top 5th has an average income of $110K/year, so hard to call that "rich." And less than 5% of Ivy students, sadly, come from the bottom fifth. Need-based aid, furthermore, is available to huge numbers of Ivy League students, including those in the top fifth of family income.

Most students are upper class in terms of income but there are even more wealthy ones who have assets. Probably 75% are wealthy and 10% are poor. The large middle class is underrepresented.

More than 1/2 have incomes over $200k.

my name says it all.

bleu wrote:

NC State Vet School is a land and has a state contracts. Her chances of getting in are almost zero. In contrast Cornell's vet school is private, better, and she would have a better chance of acceptance.

Yes NC State is a land grant college (as is Cornell Vet School, CALS, I&R, and HumanEcology). They do give preference to NC residents but do not have any contract agreements with border states that lack DVM schools. Roughly 25% of their class is out of state. If Chmiel spends 4 years at NC State undergrad it would be possible for her to be considered a NC resident by the time she applies to and matriculates at DVM school if she desires. But truly my point was that if you want DVM it absolutely helps you to go to an undergrad university with a DVM school. You need animal experience hours etc and the connections with faculty. This is much less the critical for MD. If she didn’t want to go to Cornell either because she wasn’t thrilled about the team or she wanted to save her college fund for Vet School then NC State makes sense.

No idea when Tuohy will commit, but I've heard that she did her officials at NC State, Syracuse, Providence, Michigan, and Villanova. Hart, Vanderlende, and Tuohy at Michigan would make a formidable top 3 that would be very difficult to beat, but if she went to NC State they would be almost impossible to beat. NC State has/will have young talents in Chmiel, Schulz, and Alyssa Hendrix, in addition to upperclassmen talents already competing there, and the addition of Tuohy would bring them to a whole other level.

They can receive preferential admittance but no additional financial assistance.