Mary Cain, her father, Ritz, Julian and others talk in-depth with Sports Illustrated includes Salazar's full statement

I love how posters who know nothing about you insist you are part of this group or that group. They always look so foolish when outed.

Running is like investing. You can be extremely conservative and be basically guaranteed some modest gains. You can be extremely aggressive and risk flaming out with the hopes of making it big in a hurry. You can (and probably should) be somewhere in between.

Salazar and Cain clearly took the high risk, high reward approach. They gambled on Cain holding up through very rigorous (and probably unhealthy) training and becoming an Olympic champion level athlete with the understanding that they were also taking a tremendous risk in the process.

It seems a bit like Cain went along with the "bet the farm" approach when it was time to set her risk profile, but is regretting it only in retrospect after the bet has clearly failed. I'm not saying that Salazar did nothing wrong through all of this, but I am saying that if you set an "OG or bust" level of risk tolerance and you assemble a team around you that fits this strategy, you're inherently accepting that you are going to be pushed harder and face a higher level of risk than if you'd chosen a different path.

Salazar is obviously a dick, but it seems a bit disingenuous to make him part of your team and make a high risk gamble with him, then to turn around and make it all about him when the gamble doesn't pay off.

dollups wrote:

Cain defenders gloss over:

- her dad was copied on emails

- her stress fractures - many of them - occured after she left NOP

- NOP had a licensed pscyhologist onboard

- her parents did nothing when Cain started cutting herself

Add to that all the people coming out now saying Al Sal did this and that (I am sure it happened) why didn't they (eps the women) try to protect this young girl? They have been out of the team for years why did they have to wait until Cain spoke up before they jumped on the bandwagon

This article from the NY Times published on June 8, 2018 about Katelyn Tuohy has a lot of applicable information for the Cain situation. It said:

"No, the real challenge for Tuohy is solving one of the cruelest puzzles of youth sports: Why do so many gifted teenage female distance runners fizzle out by their early 20s, unable to capture the speed of their youth?

Tuohy, like so many exceptional girls before her, seems destined for national championships and Olympic medals. And yet, since 1980, just one female winner of the Foot Locker National Cross Country Championships has made an Olympic team, compared with seven male high school champions. Just four have won an individual N.C.A.A. championship.

Bill Pierce, a professor of health sciences at Furman University and the co-founder of the Furman Institute of Running and Scientific Training, said it was nearly impossible to project an elite girl’s future success in distance running because the female body changes so much during the teenage years.

Running fast over long distances requires great lung capacity, but also great strength relative to body weight, as do figure skating and gymnastics.

They are nothing but skin and bones and lungs in their early years,” Pierce said. Then, he said, the girls mature but don’t necessarily develop the strength required to move a larger body so swiftly.

It’s hardly a coincidence that many girls at the top level of the sport as juniors have struggled with disordered eating and other body-related issues. They include Melody Fairchild, who in 1991 was called the greatest high school runner ever. Fairchild dreamed of making an Olympic team from the age of 12, and she was such a dominant runner as a teenager she was certain it would happen. It never did.

Now 44, Fairchild understands where her dream went off course. Her personal life fell apart the summer before college. Fairchild’s mother died of cancer 25 days after she graduated from high school. Her father battled alcoholism. Fairchild struggled with injuries her freshman year at the University of Oregon.

Looking back on those years, Fairchild said she, like so many other young, talented runners, failed to understand that the ups and downs she experienced as her body evolved were normal. Nature was doing what it is supposed to do for young girls as they become women — add fat and prepare the body for reproduction. That otherwise healthy development, however, does not help an elite runner maintain her speed."

Body abusive wrote:

... there's another issue here. If a female athlete wants to win then why can't she forgo periods and get to the edge of being unhealthy? World class running is abusing the body as much as is possible anyway.

The solution is to get rid of high level female racing or institute weight classes for female runners.

This is of course Common Sense, but likely you will be sent to the PC-UnThink world if you express it publicly.

What about looking for talent and appropriate petiteness after the females are age 20? Maybe there are some talented young women out there who never ran too seriously in high school and do small well and naturally.

So what corroboration is there that Mary was weighed in public? The SI has a video were it repeats this claims multiple times. No one has supported it

She also says in the SI video for a very long time my family was the only one that knew what happened. So if they knew what happened, why did they allow her go back to Oregon this Spring?

Also she says in the video all her physical health issues are under control, so why isn't she a contender for the next Olympics?

What an insightful article.

Kind of makes you think everyone including runner, parent, coach, sponsor should wait for a distance runner to transition to 20 years old whether through college or other, but never go pro at the immature age of 17. I blame each equally for thinking otherwise.

How can being a runner getting weighed in public be an issue if the runner doesn't have issues too big that they should put themselves on medical hold in the first place?

Not saying awful stuff wasn't going on, but you should be able to handle getting weighed under a typical situation. It's not cause for hysteria. These are women who run around in speedos and jog bras, but can't be weighed?

Running too wrote:

That's what you get when you join a professional training group.

If you don't want that, just don't try to be a professional athlete on a major brand payroll.

What a lazy, backwards way of thinking. It's symptomatic of a population that has been trained not to question anything and to take orders. You know, because nothing can ever be changed.

"that's what you get as a woman trying to run the Boston Marathon..."

"that's what you get trying to sit at the white counter...."

"That's what you get living in the colonies..."

Yep, might as well roll over and take it , because nothing can ever be done about the current situation. Nothing ever.

Inform me wrote:

Well said. wrote:

Not here in Australia.

Just hoping the snowflake disease doesn't spread here.

I actually thought it was fairly rampant over there even more so than here

Nah mate, weir hangin on, JUST!!! The ard part is keepin the sepo influence of your dopey sheilas out, but fortunately most of our sheilas know their place and know how to behave.

So no worries, she'll be right.

Oh, I understand.

I don't understand why I can't be a wide receiver on my favorite team the NE patriots. I can't catch well and I'm not fast, but I think we need to change the system because this is a real serious current problem and because damn I wanted to play with Tom. So let's change this corrupt system that won't let me on the team. In fact I may just sue, can someone start a GoFundMe.

Ken Goe can learn a thing or two from Chris Chavez.

Since the allegations broke out about NOP--and I'm talking since 2015--there has never been an article as comprehensive as this one.

And I think NOP came up with the L.

I found the situation with Colleen Julian and Darren Treasure intentionally mislead people at NOP. "no such thing as a licensed sports psychologist." Come on. You posed as someone who was a certified expert, and same with Colleen. It's not enough to walk things back now trying to get out of this on technicalities and semantics.

Alberto was also in the room when Mary was prescribed BC pills to help her lose water weight? He has so many crooked doctor friends.

What we have here is an attempt to criminalize free speech.

Alberto should have treated her better, but he has committed no crime.

Waiting for Mary to say "Hey, I have a new sponsor and a new coach. Watch me fly now."

Nope, she will stay stuck on this Nike/Alberto tory for a long time to come.

What a lot of you yahoos don't seem to realize is that even if a person does realize their behavior is abusive and different from their intent, that does not excuse them from a behavior, especially in a professional capacity. If you have ever worked in an official position of authority over a group of people, whether in a coaching, supervisory, crew leader, or any other type of authority role, you should know this. What matters is how your behavior is interpreted by those under your authority, and not the intent or effect of your behavior AS YOU SEE IT. This matters because you can have a significant impact on the people you have authority over, and you should be aware of how your behavior is interpreted by them and affects them. You are responsible for their health and well being. If you don't want to take responsibility for that, and you want to blame the people that were under your authority, you have completely missed the boat.

As a leader, you set the tone, you are the example, you are the inspiration. And when you fail to influence people in a positive way, when they walk away with a sour taste in their mouth about how you treated them, it's probably your fault as a leader, plain and simple. This tendency that Salazar has to blame everyone but himself tells you everything that you need to know.

Who did he blame? He said if he offended anyone when he talked about their weight he was sorry. That sounds like he admits he told people if he they were overweight. He’s not blaming anyone else for that.

Carp, first sentence should read "even if a person does NOT realize their behavior is abusive and different from their intent, that does not excuse them from a behavior, especially in a professional capacity."

So many triggered, snowflakes like you here. First, no criminal charges have been filled. Second, Alberto was an abusive coach who failed to develop his athlete properly. He's been banned for his flawed methods. Third, nobody has argued that weight has no bearing on performance ... but if a coach fixates on weight and that leads to diminishing the athlete's health and performance than he's a poor coach and needs to find another profession. See -- it's easy to follow now, right?

scnc wrote:

Horse handicapper wrote:

+1.

It's like Mary Cain et al expect that Newton's Law (F=ma) doesn't apply because "I was the fastest girl in USA" years ago, when reducing m is easier than increasing F.

Anyone trying to boil the accusations down to merely Cain complaining about being told to lose weight is being intellectually dishonest.

That's not what is happening. What is happening is that people, athletes, who had tough coaches are seeing that Cain et. al., are piling on by blaming Salazar only -- when for Chrissakes, the psychological make up to cause a young woman to cut herself starts WAY-Y before the age she was when AS began coaching her. Ergo; WHERE ARE THE PARENTS RESPONSIBILITY IN ALL THIS.

To a degree Salazar was handed psychologically damaged emotional goods when he took on coaching Mary Cain.

He is not responsible for her cutting herself, and as far as her mentioning it to him/them, it sounds like

they didn't hear or understand her - and she was adult enough to mention it to her father or mother, or seek a qualified mental health professional aside from NOP. She lives in the Internet age, for crying out loud she could have easily googled "getting help for self-cutting."

It's a bit disgusting that there is not a lot of responsibility taking by her parents or herself, then or now.

It's great to have the bravery to come out about it now, but let's be honest, there is not a legit psychotherapist that will tell you the roots of cutting behavior started under Salazar's coaching. That's just nuts. If they didn't here or understand her, then she should have found help herself. She lives in a time when the info is a few clicks away for anonmyous help etc.

There are plenty of people here who should share responsibility...

Many cutters (but not all) do so for attention. When that attention is not provided, they up the ante.