3hr-marathoner wrote:
El Keniano wrote:
God, American running is so much drama. It's all camps and cliques and who's friends and not. If only they'd be this entertaining on the track.
I always assumed there was drama in running circles everywhere. Is it different in Kenya?
The only drama we've ever had was between Ezekiel Kemboi and Conseslus Kipruto, which played out in the field and was doused in not time.
facty wrote:
Ken Goe's body of "work" over time show that he very much is biased. That has been pointed out many times on this thread.
That is your opinion not a fact. Even if Goe's history of work is biased that does change whether this article was or wasn't responsible journalism. I have not read all of Goe's articles, only the ones linked to on Letsrun for the most part. Overall I haven't had many objections.
He's a sports journalist in Oregon, obviously, he's not going to burn Nike in every piece he writes or he's not going to get any more interviews. But he doesn't come off to me as a Nike puppet, such as that guy who wrote two books on Salazaar defending him on the doping allegations.
El Keniano wrote:
3hr-marathoner wrote:
I always assumed there was drama in running circles everywhere. Is it different in Kenya?
The only drama we've ever had was between Ezekiel Kemboi and Conseslus Kipruto, which played out in the field and was doused in not time.
I forget the details but didn't Kiprop release a tape of himself making out with a training partner's wife? From person experience there was drama on my HS team and there was even more drama in college. I think crazy drama is happening in Kenya, the details just aren't making it to these message boards.
Primo Numero Uno wrote:
facty wrote:
Ken Goe's body of "work" over time show that he very much is biased. That has been pointed out many times on this thread.
That is your opinion not a fact. Even if Goe's history of work is biased that does change whether this article was or wasn't responsible journalism. I have not read all of Goe's articles, only the ones linked to on Letsrun for the most part. Overall I haven't had many objections.
He's a sports journalist in Oregon, obviously, he's not going to burn Nike in every piece he writes or he's not going to get any more interviews. But he doesn't come off to me as a Nike puppet, such as that guy who wrote two books on Salazaar defending him on the doping allegations.
"He's not going to burn Nike in every piece he writes"
It is a fact to those who've had the displeasure of reading much of his work. I'd love to see even two examples of him being critical of Nike, ever.
Not enough that her allegations have bore fruit, apparently. She should stop yelling at people and calm the hell down. She got what she wanted.
This sounds like a classic case of a person not knowing when to shut up and feeling like they need to tell everyone, "I told you so."
objectivity is a fallacy, RoJo
I have been a resident of Oregon for the past twenty years, and have followed Goe for about the same amount of time. I enjoy his articles and commentary, however, in regard to Salazar and the allegations against him, Goe has been a poor excuse for a journalist. Since allegations against Salazar first came under investigation, Goe has carried Salazar's water, defending him in any manner he could. That's not the job of a journalist. You need to be objective.
Banana Bread wrote:
Kara is cute when she is angry. Every other elite American runner girl looks like carnage well before Kara's age.
Yeah, but Bekele is cuter. Am I right???
wulp wrote:
If no one cares then why are there already 60 posts on an interaction she had last night?
You’re mistaking caring about what she’s saying with caring that she’s being vocal. She has repeatedly been painted, fairly or not, as a drama queen, and most folks aren’t here debating what she’s saying, they’re debating whether she ought to be heard.
themanontherun wrote:
wulp wrote:
If no one cares then why are there already 60 posts on an interaction she had last night?
You’re mistaking caring about what she’s saying with caring that she’s being vocal. She has repeatedly been painted, fairly or not, as a drama queen, and most folks aren’t here debating what she’s saying, they’re debating whether she ought to be heard.
People talking about it = people caring about what she said. You can try to justify it to yourself however you want.
MeToo brigade will eventually come after the Brojos and will eventually file a lawsuit for harassment and slander. They will allege that Letsrun.com raped them.
themanontherun wrote:
wulp wrote:
If no one cares then why are there already 60 posts on an interaction she had last night?
You’re mistaking caring about what she’s saying with caring that she’s being vocal. She has repeatedly been painted, fairly or not, as a drama queen, and most folks aren’t here debating what she’s saying, they’re debating whether she ought to be heard.
"Nevertheless, she persisted"
How dare she have her voice heard.
The link between Wetmore and Dr Browne also needs to be further investigated.
Gouchers and Jenny Simpson are his patients so why are they the loudest in condemning NOP?
Bobe Lee wrote:
The link between Wetmore and Dr Browne also needs to be further investigated.
Gouchers and Jenny Simpson are his patients so why are they the loudest in condemning NOP?
Because, as has been pointed out a million times, the NOP allegations and banning of Salazar are about a lot more than merely seeing Dr. Brown. You guys don't understand what hypocrisy means.
Goe shouldn’t be Nike’s personal spokesperson.
Kara shouldn’t be going after him for doing what he always does at his job.
Letsrun shouldn’t care about a lame twitter fight.
Abdoujaparov wrote:
A few points to keep in mind. First, the NYT video was an OPINION piece, not a news article. It was, explicitly, Mary’s opinion from Mary’s point of view. I’d love for the NYT to publish a news piece. But the video was never intended to be that.
Goe’s piece, by contrast, was a news piece. Not opinion. And in that context, taking days to pull together a puff piece - without doing even the journalistic bare minimum of contacting sources who are clearly willing to speak on the record - makes Goe a shill. It is Ken’s job to be the reporter - to report on the allegations from Cain, investigate those allegations (incl by reaching out to sources), and then to seek comment from Salazar and Nike and report on that. It’s not Kara’s job to intuit that he might be writing a story and then call him up to force unsolicited quotes on him. Or to call him after he’s published the puff piece and provide quotes.
Second, God’s snarky twitter exchange was unprofessional. He’s the journalist who couldn’t bother to speak to anyone other than Salazar telling Goucher that she needs to step up and call him? As though it’s her job? As though she hasn’t been stepping up for the best part of a decade as a whistleblower, at significant personal and professional cost? When he’s regularly published pieces that are basically cut and paste from NIke’s corporate communications group for years? Many news outlets have sought comments from Nike about the video. It’s no surprise that Salazar gave an interview to Goe.
Third, letsrun could do a much better job than it has done thus far with respect to whistleblowers. Every thread re Salazar devolves into the Gouchers and Magness are liars, crazy, dopers (in Kara’s case) etc. — even though Kara gave all of her medical records to USADA during the investigation and has publicly stated — again — that she wants WADA and USADA to test her (and any and all other NOP athletes). And even after comments for which she was pilloried (e.g. her comment that someone was threatened — which turned out to be Capriotti threatening Mackey) were repeatedly shown to be true.
I don’t know these people and I have no ties to professional running. I am a fan. It’s not that hard to see that the Gouchers are not the problem.
This is an excellent and accurate post. The distinction between opinion and news is critical and NYT are pretty religious about indicating which is which. The fact the "journalists" on this site can't read their disclaimer doesn't change that. And it doesn't excuse shills like Ken Goe from acting as Nike's mouthpiece under the guise of reporting news.
Re: The above: Yes, the Mary Cain NY Times video was an OPINION piece, but it was on the front page of that day's online edition of the NY Times, alongside the major news articles of the day. IMO, the Times should have followed it with a news article, not just the commentary by Lindsay Crouse. Hopefully, RED-S will become more widely known and the culture in many training programs will change as people become better educated about this. Abusive coaches of both sexes have been around for decades. Hopefully, this will change too.
Women can be even MORE vicious to each other than men are, in some cases. Jealousy, for instance (women vs. women), whereas men objectify them.
El Keniano wrote:
God, American running is so much drama. It's all camps and cliques and who's friends and not. If only they'd be this entertaining on the track.
I kind of agree here. There's doping positives coming out every week amongst European and African countries, but at least majority of the athletes put their head down and train.
In the USA, we get a case with allegations where no athlete has even tested positive and we act like some huge Russian state-sponsored systematic doping scandal is going on. But Americans will grab onto any drama they can get.
No pun intended considering he's wrapped up in this, but someone like Galen Rupp has no social media, blocks out the drama and trains. He might not be that great personality in the sport we're looking for but that's probably a testament to why he's so much better than other Americans.
It's always funny to me when someone asserts that "X is faster because they don't post on social media".
Agree with Rojo, Article by Goe seemed to be pretty objective in my opinion...he mentioned that Cain did concede that she wanted to go back to AlSal this spring..,only stating facts... not an AlSal apologist by any means but Goucher’s constant social media whining really getting tiresome here...do some more races/ultras instead, but I guess she likes the attention!
RIP: D3 All-American Frank Csorba - who ran 13:56 in March - dead
RENATO can you talk about the preparation of Emile Cairess 2:06
Running for Bowerman Track Club used to be cool now its embarrassing
Great interview with Steve Cram - says Jakob has no chance of WRs this year
Hats off to my dad. He just ran a 1:42 Half Marathon and turns 75 in 2 months!