Mary Cain hot take

HOOWIEE wrote:

mkng1 wrote:

I believe Mary Cain was permanently harmed by Alberto, mentally and physically. I disagree with her that Alberto should get the most out of her as an athlete. Alberto was set up to earn medals, recruited athletes he thought could make it, and trained them as such. Some won and some broke. We all knew that. Why is any of this shocking?

What's shocking to me is his unwillingness to specially tailor a plan to get the most out of his athlete. Classic example of a trying to shove a square peg into a round hole. Get your athlete to the starting line.

LOL, the loser armchair hobby jogger coaches who have zero cred are criticizing a former world class runner who has coached athletes to all kids of Olympic success. What a joke.

C0l0rado wrote:

Alberto failed his athlete on every level. Even the posters who are playing at being elite coaches with uncompromising standards for performance should just admit that he failed miserably in this case. Rigidly focusing on bodyweight is not a good way to develop talent. It's a bad approach -- how hard is that to understand? Plus, fostering an abusive atmosphere and a tendency toward humiliation are amateur-level techniques. Look at a coach like John Wooden if you want evidence that developing talent requires encouragement and positivity along with high standards and dedication.

+1

HOOWIEE wrote:

You dont know anything about this wrote:

So?

S#it happens in sports

The Cleveland browns have a lot of great players and they suck. You think everyone wins?

There's a difference between sucking and not even being to able to walk onto the field..

Really, NFL players don’t get hurt?

Plus 1 wrote:

C0l0rado wrote:

Alberto failed his athlete on every level. Even the posters who are playing at being elite coaches with uncompromising standards for performance should just admit that he failed miserably in this case. Rigidly focusing on bodyweight is not a good way to develop talent. It's a bad approach -- how hard is that to understand? Plus, fostering an abusive atmosphere and a tendency toward humiliation are amateur-level techniques. Look at a coach like John Wooden if you want evidence that developing talent requires encouragement and positivity along with high standards and dedication.

+1

She failed as an athlete. She didn’t have what it takes from a mental and character standpoint. Some people just aren’t cut out for it. Some people are too soft and no amount of coaching or hugs is going to change that.

Lead a horse to water wrote:

Plus 1 wrote:

+1

She failed as an athlete. She didn’t have what it takes from a mental and character standpoint. Some people just aren’t cut out for it. Some people are too soft and no amount of coaching or hugs is going to change that.

The irony here is that you probably can't even break 5 minutes in the mile^

It is obvious that being lean is important to running fast, especially at a high level. But being lean and destroying your body are two different things. Alberto lived his life willing to destroy himself to win. As a coach, maybe that was what was expected of his runners. Losing weight that results in multiple stress fractures, no long have a body that functions like it should, and declining performance, should have been a sign that something was off in the training and needed to be changed. But that did not happen.

That being said, I think this going pro out of high school is a bad choice for most athletes. Professional running is huge jump from high school and most teenager's bodies still need time to develop.

Frank Shorter here wrote:

I don't know what you guys or Mary Cain expects.

If you don't want to do high level sports than don't sign up for it.

Couldn't agree more with this. Sport is becoming pathetic like everything else around. You can't say a word anymore not risking insulting or victimizing someone.

Let's be honest, Mary Cain joined the most prestige training group on the planet that have the top most ambitions. And she is shocked that couch asks her to lose weight. Of course she is by no means "fat" compared to average joe, but when it comes to distance running she is far from ideal weight. Did she has free choice? Absolutely and if she did not agree with Alberto she could leave instantly.

Has anyone pointed out there's a difference between working harder and working smarter? Bunch of tough guys on this board.

Shorter Frank here wrote:

Frank Shorter here wrote:

I don't know what you guys or Mary Cain expects.

If you don't want to do high level sports than don't sign up for it.

Couldn't agree more with this. Sport is becoming pathetic like everything else around. You can't say a word anymore not risking insulting or victimizing someone.

Let's be honest, Mary Cain joined the most prestige training group on the planet that have the top most ambitions. And she is shocked that couch asks her to lose weight. Of course she is by no means "fat" compared to average joe, but when it comes to distance running she is far from ideal weight. Did she has free choice? Absolutely and if she did not agree with Alberto she could leave instantly.

Y

she ran 4:04 in HS.

She never came close to that running with NOP training.

In fact she ran terribly, season after season.

She *was* doing high level sports, before NOP. NOP destroyed her. No idea why you are saying destroying a young athlete is 'high level sports.'

'high level sports' should actually you know make people better athletes, not make people worse athletes.

As someone said - all Salazar had to do with Cain was basic HS training plus a little...and she would have responded. Instead he ran her into the ground. Total fail. He should have adopted his training to make her faster, not slower.

Frank Shorter here wrote:

I don't know what you guys or Mary Cain expects.

If you don't want to do high level sports than don't sign up for it.

So you are one of the hopeless clueless ones, eh?

You are one of those that think that taking the no.1 teenage runner in the country and destroying her, is the right way to go.

Well if AlSal is about results, his results with Cain suck. He fucked it up!

AlSal has been handed a 4 year suspension. Out on his ass for doping and doping related offenses!

And some of you clueless boys are still justifying him.

As on old Italian proverb says - the mother of the idiot is always pregnant.

Professional athletics, sorry what you are talking about is stuff that affects amateurs. When you go pro the coach is there to win medals, break records, etc. not be your friend or make you into a complete person. Ask ANY pro men's anything and here how they are treated "like meat" because that is what you are- you might be a great guy but if your hammy keeps you from running the ball, you are out on your butt working at the mall.

Mary should have gone to college and she would have received the nurturing she apparently needed. She cashed those checks but didn't want the backside of that deal.

Shorter Frank here wrote:

Frank Shorter here wrote:

I don't know what you guys or Mary Cain expects.

If you don't want to do high level sports than don't sign up for it.

Couldn't agree more with this. Sport is becoming pathetic like everything else around. You can't say a word anymore not risking insulting or victimizing someone.

Let's be honest, Mary Cain joined the most prestige training group on the planet that have the top most ambitions. And she is shocked that couch asks her to lose weight. Of course she is by no means "fat" compared to average joe, but when it comes to distance running she is far from ideal weight. Did she has free choice? Absolutely and if she did not agree with Alberto she could leave instantly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o25I2fzFGoY

My experience is that when people when train hard their resulting weight is what it should be. I doubt if Salazar dieted during his glory years.

We don't know how well though out the strategy was for Cain to lose weight. I guess they had a nutritionist, but was he/she knowledgeable about what was appropriate for a young female runner? Did Salazar, after reviewing the nutritionist's proposal, have another 500+calories carved out?

That Cain didn't have a period for three years and suffered 5 stress fractures shows negligence by the NOP. Some posters say she wasn't tough enough or should have known what she was getting into, but did the NOP tell her beforehand, "We'll make you into either a Gold Medal winner or a running cripple"?

so your view is that Cain received high quality, correctly directed coaching.

alberto likes to think of himself as the greatest coaching of all time. if you fail, he will blame you instead of himself

Nothing to see here. Happens to college runners in every program. Coaches push hard, some respond to it and some blow out.

ultimately I think that this is the razor's edge with alberto. He was driven enough to run himself to death. Did that. He has a strange brain that let him drive himself to suffering virtually no one else can understand or emulate. He ran himself into the ground and was done by his mid twenties.

he seems to think all his athletes should have the same deathwish/drive. Those who are willing to drive themselves to salazar-like suffering and who can stay injury-free seem to do well with him.

Those who thrive on something other than suffering and sacrifice...didn't make it with NOP. Al Sal doesnt' understand those people and shouldnt have been coaching them.

You Americans are soft as fck. In Russia saying your ass is fat would be a compliment from the couch.

Also I don't understand this if you get slower year after year than why keep hammering the same way? Why just not quit? She kept doing something half way, failed it both ways and now she's blaming others for it. Surely it hurts if you have wasted your career like that but step up and take some responsibility for your own actions. It's not like you were 10 years old kid who doesn't understand anything

I don't buy this.

yeah true. She was wrong to trust Alberto Salazar. He was a terrible coach for her and she didn't realize it.

I guess we can agree on that.

agip wrote:

[quote]NotPC wrote:

so your view is that Cain received high quality, correctly directed coaching.

She certainly received the first part. But if it's not working out she could have switched to another coach, she could have quit. This happens all the time in high level athletics. And when someone washes out because either they can't handle it, their body breaks down, the coaching isn't right, whatever.. again, NOT something that is rare. Look at all the high draft pick QBs that wash out in the NFL. What happens with her is not uncommon in the world of athletics.

It's a numbers game and only the few make it to the highest levels. How many really good Ethiopian or Kenyan athletes are back at home working on a farm because they were just a few clicks too slow to make the national team.