The fact that Nick Symmonds ran 1:42 shows the 800m is weak

We know that Nick Symmonds, more than likely was the slowest (200m & 400m) sub-1:43 800m runner.

Intuition wrote:

Think about it.

Actually, I’m thinking about what your issues are. Working for LRC to generate responses, or working for a rival company, or just a weird sense of humor, or what.

Respect the clock

Intuition wrote:

Think about it.

Your reasoning is solid.

Intuition wrote:

Think about it.

I agree. WR was ran without Pacers after rounds at a championship event. Mahk time trials 1:43s. 1:39 should have been hit by now. 48.9-50.x

I heard some guy ran 1:40, what a joke of an event am I right guys

OP here. I am, to some degree, trolling, because it was obvious that this thread would get many subsequent responses. But Nick Symmonds is legitimately stocky, and he really doesn't have any business running two seconds off the 800m world record. If Symmonds was capable of 1:42, someone like Kipketer or Rudisha should be capable of 1:40 low.

Wasn't legit. Short course.

Intuition wrote:

OP here. I am, to some degree, trolling, because it was obvious that this thread would get many subsequent responses. But Nick Symmonds is legitimately stocky, and he really doesn't have any business running two seconds off the 800m world record. If Symmonds was capable of 1:42, someone like Kipketer or Rudisha should be capable of 1:40 low.

His pb was 1:42.95, so rounded to nearest tenth, it's more of a 1:43.0 than a 1:42 guy.

You also have to remember that the race was the quickest in history where everyone bar 1 or 2 ran their career pbs. The track in 2012 was almost certainly faster than the one Kipketer ran on 15 years prior, and certainly quicker than the ones used in the early 80's.

Despite his stocky appearance, Symmonds was no slouch, having a 400m pb of 47.45, not long before the London Games. That compares favourably with Cram's pb in training from 85 of 48.1 (47.5 relay best) and that of P.Elliott (official pb of 48.2 from 84, although supposedly ran a 47 time trial later in the 80's). All 3 were 1:42 high 800m runners; and I would expect that had a peak Cram from 85 or 86 ran in that race in London 2012, he'd have run more like 1:42 low.

Even Kipketer only had a 400m pb of 46.86 and a best relay split of 45.4 (in 97). I think a 2 second gap between Kipketer and Symmonds (about 17m) is about right. There will always be a few tenths out either way, depending on what era and what tracks they ran on.

Intuition wrote:

OP here. I am, to some degree, trolling, because it was obvious that this thread would get many subsequent responses. But Nick Symmonds is legitimately stocky, and he really doesn't have any business running two seconds off the 800m world record. If Symmonds was capable of 1:42, someone like Kipketer or Rudisha should be capable of 1:40 low.

Right. This is the kind of logic we need here at Letsrun: One guy runs a great race, and that means everyone else is weak.

Of course you suspect Cram in that race would have run 1:42 low, protecting your hero's pr. Symmonds was stocky and not a great speed guy, but the combination of 47.45 and 3:34.55 in one circuit race attempt shows that he was a capable 800m runner. Don't forget that the following year, he ran 1:43.30 at world's for silver and 1:43.03 at Brussels, so the 1:42.95 was only marginally better than two other races he ran. It was no fluke but great circumstances. He had been stuck at high 1:43s a long time because he relied on his last 100m and didn't stay close enough to get really fast times until 2012. But in that final everyone went out so fast that he was forced to go out faster than usual--and thus run closer to his ultimate potential.

Cram in such a race would have run mid to low 1:41s, at his best. Coe at his best might have been even closer to Rudisha, and certainly peak 1990s Kipketer on epo would have been there.

JUN 2015

2013 1:43.03 Boudewijnstadion, Bruxelles (BEL) 06 SEP 2013

400 Metres 47.45 Dublin (IRL) 25 JUL 2012 1016

600 Metres 1:14.47 Eugene, OR (USA) 15 JUN 2008 1172

800 Metres 1:42.95 Olympic Stadium, London (GBR) 09 AUG 2012 1237

1000 Metres 2:16.35 Hayward Field, Eugene, OR (USA) 03 JUL 2010 1153

1500 Metres 3:34.55 Stade Louis II, Monaco (MON) 19 JUL 2013 1181

Simmons' weakness was his technical issues that slowed his acceleration.

However he was not slow, and he was incredibly strong. Had he solved the first 150 m while in his prime, he'd have been a way more successful athlete. And he was a successful athlete.

*Symmonds

Cram with his 48ish 400m speed could not have raced sub-1:42. Cram knew he was a TT 800m runner, not an Olympic &/or W.C. 800m runner. Coe was a TT 800m runner also. Coe was cautious the first lap of 800m races in Olympics. Coe would have gone through first lap in 2012 Olympics no faster than 51.0 A 51.0 first 400m would have meant Coe would have raced in 3rd lane the final 350m. A Coe under age 28 in 2012 Olympics 800m final would not have raced sub-1:42.

No chance Coe would have gone thru in 51.0 considering Symmonds was last in 50.44! Considering how spread out the race was that day, no one had to go out to lane 3 to go past anyone (again Nick was last and still finished in lane two in the last 100m).

Other note about Symmonds 47.45 - it was done with a standing start and no blocks, so it's really should be official (similar to Mike Marsh's 400 PR of 45.08 that he ran with a standing start in 1997). Nick was prob a 3:32 guy if he had of run a few more of them rather than one real shot at it in Monaco that year he ran 3:34

It might be possible that Symmonds could never run a 100 under 11 seconds, but I'm sure he could have run a high 21 second 200 meter given his 400 speed. Also, like someone has stated he ran 1:43 with a rabbit and the pack in front of him, not as a solo effort. And of courses it's the Olympic Games with everything on the line.

The clock don't lie for anybody son.

Belarussiya wrote:

It might be possible that Symmonds could never run a 100 under 11 seconds, but I'm sure he could have run a high 21 second 200 meter given his 400 speed. Also, like someone has stated he ran 1:43 with a rabbit and the pack in front of him, not as a solo effort. And of courses it's the Olympic Games with everything on the line.

If he can't break 47 for an open 400m, then I doubt he can break 22 for a 200m from a standing/block start.

Coe ran a 45.6 relay leg from practically a standing (tripped at take over) start in 81, and his pb for 200m was 21.6. Cram could run around 22 high/23 flat in his best years, and I don't think Symmonds would have been a second faster than Cram.