Unreal: UCSB hit with NCAA sanctions for having xc runners run over the summer

Former NCAA athlete here, what Dolan did absolutely sounds like a violation. How it was always explained to us by our compliance staff was that our coaches could give us individualized training plans over the summer, and we could have regular conversations about how our training was going throughout the summer, and our coach could penalize us for the outcomes from fitness tests/races/etc. come fall, but they could not do any sort of thing that would make the summer workouts seem "mandatory", to include logging or reporting back, or penalizing for failing to do so. Same thing holds true with Sunday workouts or anything over the 20hr a week cap (for Division 1 in-season), the coach normally will say something along the lines of "I'd recommend doing 6 miles tomorrow", and then the captains will host a "captain's practice" or however they choose to run it, but they can't report back to the coach anything about the attendance or performance at that practice, to ensure that it's not implicitly considered mandatory. We would often have people do these on their own if other times worked better for their schedule. And yeah, sometimes people really did feel that their body needed the rest and would choose to take the day off instead, and in my last year being a captain I was completely fine with them making that call, given that it was voluntary and all.

As someone said earlier, this is about UCSB making sure they have a case to not pay Coach Dolan for firing him. Plan and simple. I've seen it many, many times at different schools I have worked at that the institution comes up with BS violation and then cans the coach, not having to pay them out. I really hope that Coach Dolan gets his suit settled in a positive manner.

NCAA D1 scholarship athletes have more preseason (summer) restrictions than high school kids who are just getting into the sport. How does that make any sense?

There's a difference in the wording a lot of you guys aren't getting. Yeah, it'd be irresponsible for coaches to not talk to their athletes at all over the summer. Coaches will check in and ask how workouts are going and talk, yeah, but they can't mandate training plans. Again, it's the wording. Compliance is a pain but you gotta toe the line.

Violator515 wrote:

Editor's note: We changed the title of the thread. It was initially entitled, "UC Santa Barb Athletes Punished for Running on Off Days".

Um… WHY??

Alternate Reality wrote:

If he said in May "Hey, get together during the summer and run. Then tell me about it in October during XC season" That would be okay.

He has to be hands off during restricted times.

We were a top 10 XC team in NCAA D1 and this is what our coach did. In May we got three sheets of paper with June, July, and August, and talked to coach about it when we got back to campus. Real runners are going to run in the summer without getting babysat.

During the school year, it was a little sneakier. Practice was at 3:30. The work out was posted on the wall. The mandatory days were the days coach was there. Voluntary days were the days he wasn't there.

democrats...

codaayyee wrote:

democrats...

fwiw I once heard Dolan describe himself as "fiscally conservative" when it came to politics. Possible that Soros is behind this one?

A Division I coach wrote:

As someone said earlier, this is about UCSB making sure they have a case to not pay Coach Dolan for firing him. Plan and simple. I've seen it many, many times at different schools I have worked at that the institution comes up with BS violation and then cans the coach, not having to pay them out. I really hope that Coach Dolan gets his suit settled in a positive manner.

Sorry but I've coached at the D1 level for 12 years and these are either rookie mistakes or the actions of a Salazaresque coach. Everyone knows about the NC2A day and about "suggested summer training". He`s either an idiot or a cheater.

I ran at UCSB and these "violations" are total BS. We would get a sheet at the beginning of the summer with recommended mileage (for the Men's team and women's team) but each runner would individually tailor the mileage and workouts.

Sunday runs were not monitored, we did long runs together as a team as most programs do. The sunday run fit into the total weekly mileage goal and point in the season, but we weren't expected to report back to Pete.

enforce the rules or junk them wrote:

Cancel the NCAA wrote:

This is so laughable...every college in the country violates this rule then. It would be irresponsible coaching to turn athletes loose for the summer and not check in on them and give them a training plan. My coach was pretty old school, so we had to mail in our weekly logs on index cards. If a coach doesn't know what his runners are doing all summer, then how is he supposed to train them properly when they do get back on campus?

Well, either you have the rules and enforce them, or you change the rules. It can only rightfully be one or the other. I think nearly everyone understands the intent/purpose of the rules, whether you agree with them or not.

Sorry there is no purpose for the rule in this case. Just an ncaa admin BS rule created for one of the money making sports to further the amateurism perception that they spread across the board not thinking about the other sports.

The rule should be changed. And this was self reported. UCSB knows they will get no real punishment from the NCAA and are trying to find leverage for their real already noted purpose.

If you read the article you will see there is no rule against them running, just that the coaches cannot be overseeing the training or be punished for not running enough. Just as college football coaches cannot have football training related contact with players over the summer either. (Yes, that is probably violated as well).

The idea of off-season conditioning being voluntary in any sport is a "wink wink nod nod" sort of thing.

Local rumors are saying it started from some athletes complaining about the coach approach and methods.

From there it was probably easy to find enough material / communications leading to potential interpretations.

Add to this the comments already made about the school not willing to take any risk, or finding a good opportunity to let him go without having to pay...

Hard to believe to the rookie mistake after 30 years of service...

NCAA is just another useless regulatory group, with no function, other than to suck up resources, parasitic.

college sports are semi pro.

get rid of NCAA.

kick them out.

offer to petition their removal.

name names.

go after them.

post pictures of the ncaa official that needs firing.

let us all chime in and email, asking for removal

do it.

Luv2Run wrote:

Just as college football coaches cannot have football training related contact with players over the summer either. (Yes, that is probably violated as well).

College football coaches follow the letter of the law. I don't know exactly the rules, but graduate assistants aren't "coaches" and can be present during voluntary practice. There are no "coaches" present for lifting, drills whatever. If the kids are in summer school, coach can have practice just like during the school year.

The NCAA rules don't make a ton of sense, but there is enough wiggle room to get the job done.

You all are speaking a topic you know very little about. Th e subject heading is misleading, yes of course every college track and field/xc athlete is expected to run over the summer out hey come back to school with a solid baseline, but it as a violation fo the NCAA to call and check in on your athletes, to check on your athletes logs and verbally abuse them if the milage they re running is not enough in your opinion. As member of the team during this time, checking in on our summer workouts was the l most lenient infraction Coach deal inflicted upon us. We had no days off unless we were injured, we were constant told how we were the worst team he had ever coached, and on topic with Mary Cain's current campaign Dolan believed that the skinnier you were, the more weight you lost. The over in evolvement in our summer workouts was only a small part of the whole allegation.

The UCSB XC & track and field team is in a much better place without him. While he did offer insightful knowledge, most of his training knowledge was antiquated and so he solely relied on the natural talent of the athletes. The success of the team came at the expense of the mental destruction of team members as well.

So a couple of questions -

SUMMER TRAINING

As long as the coach is not "checking in" or monitoring training -

(1) can a coach provide each runner an individualized summer training program before the summer begins?

-or-

(2) can a coach provide a general training program to the entire team before the summer begins?

-or-

(3) is a coach supposed to be completely hands off, providing no guidance at all during the summer, including any type of training guidance/plan at all?

The truth comes out...

Pete NEVER contacted us over summer break. We got our summer workout plans in June and we wouldn't hear from him again until the season started. He also NEVER attended any of the Sunday long runs. Those were organized by the team. Anyone claiming otherwise is being disingenuous.

Pete did expect us to update our training log weekly. He would check the logs every Monday and if you didn't have it done by our afternoon practice he would send you home for the day. This is what the NCAA found him guilty for "Dolan expected the distance runners to log their training activity during the summer and on their in-season weekly day off, which are periods when countable athletically related activity is prohibited."

Other posters have already said this, but ill echo it again. This was self reported by the University in an attempt to rid themselves of Pete without risk. They sent only disgruntled athletes (like the poster above) to be interviewed by the NCAA. I'm sure they were hoping that far worse violations were going to be uncovered, but this is all they found.