Explosive New York Times article: Mary Cain breaks silence about NOP

This deserves a ESPN 30 for 30 documentary.

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

Been There. wrote:

I would. Because I've been there. Body shaming, public humiliation, unhealthy relationship with food. I don't know the statistics, but this problem does exist on men's teams. It existed on mine. It was equally physically and psychologically damaging, though men are perhaps less likely to admit a problem due to cultural norms of "sucking it up."

I know it happens to male runners too, which is why they replaced the term "female athlete triad" to RED-S. There are also many other ways an ED manifests, binge drinking and eating for example, that may not be as obvious because it's somewhat socially acceptable for males to do.

Yeah I was diagnosed with RED-S 1 year ago and I am male. I still had an idea that being thinner was better. My bone density dropped into osteoporosis range as a 17 year old. Even on my team people have an unhealthy obsession with food for high schoolers. Most of the top guys log the foods they ate along with abstaining from added sugars and logging each time they have an unhealthy food.

ICON wrote:

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

And how many of them actually make it to pro running? And among those, how many sustain their pro career?

Two answers:

1- probably many, if they can hold up.

2- who cares if any of them make or sustain a ‘professional’ running career.

Lots of 1:12 or 2;30 types that never materialized as household name pro distance athletes. This eating issue thing is a Western World issue.

I offer only an n=1 anecdote suggesting this is not just a Western World issue, but a Taiwanese woman I know is anorexic. As a 13-year old in Taiwan she was grabbed, dragged into a bathroom and sexually molested by three middle-aged men. I suspect that had quite a lot to do with the eating disorder.

Thanks. After all this sacred mess my conclusion is that NOP not only was a pseudo science project, but a CULT as well. They ran that place like a CULT, a lot drank the cool aid and now we have their very own Guyana day. Tragic.

My account is based upon a in-person encounter with her speaking on this topic:

A large part of the reason that Mary did not join a college team is due to the fact that she did not have a good time with her team in high school. Some of the girls on her team were jealous, mean and resentful of her talent, pushing her away, especially during her later years in high school. Also, realize that Mary is quite intelligent, she likely had difficulty making connections with people her age while in high school, leading to some of these problems.

Additionally, due to her talent she mainly trained with the guys, leading her to never really develop a team mentality when it came to cross country running, compounding on the issue with other girls. Thus, when presented the opportunity to not really have to deal with a team by going pro, the option seemed to be extremely enticing because she did not have to worry about mean girls and poor team dynamics.

To her credit, she realized that pretty much no matter where she went in the NCAA there would be resentment for her coming in and taking someone's spot due to her extreme talent.

Are there posts where txRUNNERgirl or Wejo or Rojo or the LetsRun community thought Mary Cain was anorexic? If not, why is this even considered a serious discussion for her failure to become an international quality runner?

Anorexic since when? wrote:

Are there posts where txRUNNERgirl or Wejo or Rojo or the LetsRun community thought Mary Cain was anorexic? If not, why is this even considered a serious discussion for her failure to become an international quality runner?

There were probably post talking about if she had a weight issue. But those kind of threads/post usaully get deleted. Sad.

I'm sure Wejo and Rojo can pull up thousands of LetsRun posts about Mary being overweight, but my question is can they find posts about her being anorexic? Wejo and Rojo can pull up thousands of Letsrun posts about women at the highest level of international performance being anorexic, but can they pull up posts on Mary being anorexic. I can't make any sense of the issues of the Mary anorexia based on anything that I have read on LetsRun.

Regarding this weight gain. You all know that sudden weight gain can be a red flag too. If the body is in starvation mode too long it will hold on to every calorie. Resulting in a possibly pudgy look if one was extremely lean to begin with.

Or just she was so hungry she hardcore binged when no one was looking.

Fatty

He said it wrote:

⚡NEWS FLASH⚡- Distance runners need to be skinny. wrote:

Going by this photo at least Al practised what he preached when it came to weight.

If you don't want to be skinny don't try to be a national/world class distance runner.

Salazar: "It is impossible to be a world class runner or Olympic medalist without taking PEDs."

That too. ?

LetsRun community of posters must have missed when she was in the starvation mode. When exactly would have that been? Because nobody on LetsRun commented on her anorexia at the time.

Sounds like Mary Cain has learned a very valuable but tough life lesson. Nothing in this world is worth jeopardizing your physical health and mental well being. If someone is emotionally abusing you, either through public shaming/humiliation or outright verbal upbraiding, get the hell away. Nobody has greater obligation and responsibility to protecting you than YOURSELF. And where in the hell were Mary's parents in all of this? No way Alberto would have gone physically or professionally unscathed if that was my kid.

Mary and her parents chose to take money and go professional and that brings certain obligations that some high school kids (and I believe most hs kids) simply can't deal with. Shame on Mary and her parents. Shame on Alberto for thinking she could go pro without being emotionally capable.

King AdRock wrote:

I would have assumed a professional coach's first priority in scooping up a talent like Cain would be to make sure she doesn't find herself pushed too hard to get to the top too soon by a greedy, selfish coach. He had a solid 6-8 years before she even approached her prime, why push? She clearly had freakish talent, just keep her in a program of always taking the next logical step and she would've likely been international-medalist caliber in the not too distant future anyway.

Unfortunately, not all females hit their prime relative to distance running in their early to mid 20s. Mary Cain was always going to be at her prime in her teens due to her genetics. This is why high school girls shouldn't go pro if they aren't in desperate need of the money. Go to college, get your degree, run at a solid program and then go pro after if turning into a woman hasn't slowed them down.

Mary likely would not have run any faster than she did had she taken a more conservative, healthier approach, but she would have had a lot more fun and wouldn't have accumulated so many emotional scars at a young age.

I still think Al Sal was an idiot to try to change her mechanics. 2:03 for 800 as a freshman in high school and all he wanted to do was get her to run differently, as if he had any clue what he was doing. She ended up running more like a stiff robot, whereas before she was very elastic and flowing.

Clearly none of the posters claiming this was a case of "abuse," and that he should be in JAIL (??????) have never endured a wrestling season, or any sport where you have to actually regulate you weight. "He weighed me in public omg" Yeah, it's part of the sport, wrestlers do it everyday in season and don't cry about it.

OBVIOUSLY Salazar was an idiot, and any coach for that matter, that over-fixates on weight to the point of their runners developing eating disorders and becoming malnourished. Was the extra 10 pounds really worth 5 broken bones, idiot? NO! Change your strategy.

I've always thought that runners should focus more on building muscle and strength to improve running economy, and less on losing fat if they feel their weight is an issue. Every athlete is going to have different needs, of course.

That being said, I think Mary and her parents should have had a better handle on this situation. Obviously this wasn't the right environment for her, and I don't understand why she didn't quit. I don't see the evidence of anyone holding her against her will, otherwise this would be a much bigger story than it is.

Clearly this was a case of poor, overzealous coaching, but I think we as a society throw the term "abuse" around way too lightly. This wasn't abuse, and is degrading to actual victims of abuse.

Well, Mary could have turned the other cheek. She could have realized that mistakes were made by her coach and her family in the sense that she perhaps went pro too soon. I don't want to debate that here and now --- and I am not suggesting to overlook Alberto's berating runners for not being lighter. I am suggesting that she make a come-back by choosing a differant coach and team and put the NOP experience out of mind.

However, it seems for now that Mary has decided to launch a war on Alberto and Nike. She not only claims bad coaching from his NOP program,but paints Alberto as a mean, vindictive, cruel, incompetent man who has disdain and contempt for women runners. I sure hope that his character is much better than that... To me, Alberto appears to be a family man who has been in a long term marriage and is a father who has always been there for his kids.

Mary and Alberto could meet and discuss their differences and agree to bury the hatchet. This could turn out to be a very valuable lesson for sports in general, and women runners in particular. Hopefully, everybody involved decides to take the high road.

Just because high school wrestling and weight control being unhealthy AF as well doesn’t make it ok. Classic Boomer take.

Mary actually claims physical abuse, but I have not heard her explanation for what form this physical abuse took. Physical abuse is a serious claim that should not be used lightly. Now some tough guy says he would do physical abuse to Alberto. You need to see a therapist to work out your anger issues.