In light of the mounting evidence, Trump's impeachment is a foregone conclusion.

You have not seen the case Speaker Pelosi will deliver to U.S. Senate. Recall that Mueller's investigation stopped a few weeks after William Barr became U.S. Attorney General. Mueller is a guy who salutes and follow orders. Mueller was supposed to be investigating Conspiracy. Mueller did not bother to obtain T R U M P or T R U M P corp. tax records. Mueller did not bother to obtain T R U M P or T R U M P corp banking records. When U.S. Justice/F.B.I. investigate two bit drug dealers they obtain tax records and banking records. Pelosi is winning in court now regarding T R U M P's tax records over the past 8 eight years. Pelosi will deliver a far superior case. Let's wait and see.

Armstronglivs wrote:It isn't governments - at least democratic ones - that investigate people for criminal infractions, it is law enforcement agencies. They aren't directed by governments but are independent - that's part of the rule of law. No enforcement agency had legal grounds for investigating the Bidens - so they didn't. If there aren't grounds for investigating breaches of the law what other investigation can there be? Oh, right - we are heading into the territory of the People's Republic of North Korea here.

Uh, you might want to read your Constitution (I guess I'm assuming you're American).

The President of the United States is granted all executive powers - at least on the federal level - and is the country's chief law enforcement officer. He/She can start/stop federal law enforcement action. The FBI and DOJ are are not independent agencies. They are part of the executive branch of government, and ultimately under control of POTUS.

The next administration is free to investigate Trump kids business dealings, if necessary.

The previous administration declined to investigate Biden kids, for obvious reason. That does not inhibit the current administration from conducting investigations.

Armstronglivs wrote:

It isn't governments - at least democratic ones - that investigate people for criminal infractions, it is law enforcement agencies. They aren't directed by governments but are independent - that's part of the rule of law.

I think you need to take a HS government class. Lets start with a simple concept: law enforcement agencies are part of the executive branch of the government.

I have actually wondered since the beginning if this whole reveal by the whistleblower was a "two birds, one stone" move by some in the Dem party to mortally wound both Trump AND Biden.

However, if they both survive this extended theatrical production by the House to duke it out in the presidential election, I can only imagine we will hear the word "Ukraine" about 100 times a day. Guns, jobs, immigration, none of it will matter, all Ukraine all the time.

Ha ha ha! You don't even know how our government works yet you have posted dozens of posts explaining why Trump needs to be impeached. What a moran.

A question from a complete neutral on this, why did Trump, Pence hire someone many people that hate him? That Bill Taylor and Alexander Vindman clearly hate Trump, yet he let them sit in key positions.

You really have no clue wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

It isn't governments - at least democratic ones - that investigate people for criminal infractions, it is law enforcement agencies. They aren't directed by governments but are independent - that's part of the rule of law.

I think you need to take a HS government class. Lets start with a simple concept: law enforcement agencies are part of the executive branch of the government.

"Every presidency since Watergate has embraced policies for preserving DOJ and FBI independence from the President in certain law enforcement and intelligence matters. These internal regulations and memoranda, and the norms they foster, acknowledge the President’s ultimate power and responsibility for law enforcement and intelligence while at the same time recognizing that in certain matters, the Executive branch needs internal divisions of authority that achieve a type of independence from presidential control."

"In practice, as Donald Trump has learned to his colossal frustration, DOJ and FBI are in many respects quite independent. This doesn’t fit with theoretical claims for the unitary executive. But it is a reality of American constitutional governance in 2018, and it has been for quite a while."

You might do some reading on how your own system of government works.

The rebuttal to this is quite simple: if justice and law enforcement agencies were not independent of Trump's control he wouldn't have been seeking the Ukrainians to investigate the Bidens; he could have directed US federal agencies to do it for him. But he doesn't have that kind of authority. He can appoint officials to these branches - and sack them - but he can't direct their operational decisions. That is how such executive agencies work within a democracy; they are not simply part of a political contingent that can be told by the country's leader what they must or must not do. They are accountable to him but enjoy substantial independence from direct political control. As they must.

ReallybroReally wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

The House will impeach. The Senate will acquit. Nothing Trump does bothers his support base, which includes almost all Republicans - except the possible loss of an election.

You are onto something here....but the inverse is also true

Nothing HRC or Biden do bothers their support base, which includes almost all Democrats - except the possible loss of an election.

False equivalence. There is nothing that has been substantiated about Biden, and HRC's emails shafting Bernie Sanders don't come close to the charges made against Trump, of violating his Presidential oath.

I am neither Democrat nor Republican - I am not an American - but I have lived long enough to have seen all the US presidents since Eisenhower. None of them come close to Trump - Nixon included - in the worst possible way. But party lines now excuse everything - at least among sitting Republicans.

Armstronglivs wrote:

False equivalence. There is nothing that has been substantiated about Biden, and HRC's emails shafting Bernie Sanders don't come close to the charges made against Trump, of violating his Presidential oath.

I am neither Democrat nor Republican - I am not an American - but I have lived long enough to have seen all the US presidents since Eisenhower. None of them come close to Trump - Nixon included - in the worst possible way. But party lines now excuse everything - at least among sitting Republicans.

I guess you missed the fact that Hillary deleted over 30,000 emails that were under subpoena, destroyed a number of electronic devices which may have contained those emails, after she did all of her government email, including some which were classified on her own private server.

Armstronglivs wrote:The rebuttal to this is quite simple: if justice and law enforcement agencies were not independent of Trump's control he wouldn't have been seeking the Ukrainians to investigate the Bidens; he could have directed US federal agencies to do it for him. But he doesn't have that kind of authority. He can appoint officials to these branches - and sack them - but he can't direct their operational decisions. That is how such executive agencies work within a democracy; they are not simply part of a political contingent that can be told by the country's leader what they must or must not do. They are accountable to him but enjoy substantial independence from direct political control. As they must.

You couldn't be more wrong.

In the July 25th transcript, Trump asks Zelensky to co-operate with AG Barr with respect to the Bidens, Crowdstrike, and Ukranian involvement in the 2016 election. The DOJ is already involved, and Barr had already publicly announced the investigation.

And yes, the President does have the power to direct operational decisions at those agencies.

fastTuohy wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

False equivalence. There is nothing that has been substantiated about Biden, and HRC's emails shafting Bernie Sanders don't come close to the charges made against Trump, of violating his Presidential oath.

I am neither Democrat nor Republican - I am not an American - but I have lived long enough to have seen all the US presidents since Eisenhower. None of them come close to Trump - Nixon included - in the worst possible way. But party lines now excuse everything - at least among sitting Republicans.

I guess you missed the fact that Hillary deleted over 30,000 emails that were under subpoena, destroyed a number of electronic devices which may have contained those emails, after she did all of her government email, including some which were classified on her own private server.

So what charges were laid against her? And since many of you believe Trump can direct federal law enforcement, how come he didn't do anything about it, except lead chants of "lock her up" at his rallies?

Armstronglivs wrote:

So what charges were laid against her? And since many of you believe Trump can direct federal law enforcement, how come he didn't do anything about it, except lead chants of "lock her up" at his rallies?

That's just it. There were no charges

fastTuohy wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

False equivalence. There is nothing that has been substantiated about Biden, and HRC's emails shafting Bernie Sanders don't come close to the charges made against Trump, of violating his Presidential oath.

I am neither Democrat nor Republican - I am not an American - but I have lived long enough to have seen all the US presidents since Eisenhower. None of them come close to Trump - Nixon included - in the worst possible way. But party lines now excuse everything - at least among sitting Republicans.

I guess you missed the fact that Hillary deleted over 30,000 emails that were under subpoena, destroyed a number of electronic devices which may have contained those emails, after she did all of her government email, including some which were classified on her own private server.

I think you may have missed the US State Department (headed by Mike Pompeo) report that come out last month exonerating HRC:

Trump may have asked the Ukrainians to cooperate with Barr (and Giuliani) but Justice has said publicly that it has not begun an investigation into the Bidens. Trump has even issued a further media statement saying he has not asked Justice to investigate, correcting a previous statement. Fact 1: there is no criminal investigation of the Bidens by US authorities. Fact 2: Barr has shown he puts loyalty to Trump ahead of his need to be independent as Attorney-General. He is a Trump stooge.

You don't understand the conventions that govern - and restrict - the President's relationship with the executive - and, neither, it appears does Trump. Hence the impeachment proceedings. If Trump could tell justice or the FBI to do whatever he wanted America would be run like a military junta. But it's on its way - and you're happy about it.

ReallybroReally wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

So what charges were laid against her? And since many of you believe Trump can direct federal law enforcement, how come he didn't do anything about it, except lead chants of "lock her up" at his rallies?

That's just it. There were no charges

No charges, so no crime. But it seems Trump would lock people up who haven't committed any crime (hullo, his immigration policy). He would if he could. His powers don't extend as far as you think they do - or should.

Armstronglivs wrote:

ReallybroReally wrote:

That's just it. There were no charges

No charges, so no crime. But it seems Trump would lock people up who haven't committed any crime (hullo, his immigration policy). He would if he could. His powers don't extend as far as you think they do - or should.

What is Trump being charged with?

since we're on the topic wrote:

What is Trump being charged with?

His crime was getting elected President.