Given that the head coach and the team's endocrine doctor both got 4-year bans, wouldn't it be more surprising if WADA didn't choose to investigate the athletes?
Given that the head coach and the team's endocrine doctor both got 4-year bans, wouldn't it be more surprising if WADA didn't choose to investigate the athletes?
practical questions wrote:
Hello,
I have a practical question, which is, "What resources, expertise, and ability to thoroughly investigate athletes does WADA have that surpasses what USADA has?
It is an open ended question as I truly do not know what kinds of resources and staff WADA has. It seems like previous WADA investigations I am familiar with have been done because the local ADA was either incompetent (whether due to personnel or finance) or corrupt. Maybe the same could be said of USADA, but that doesn't appear obvious to me from what is known.
This is just a headline grabbing release for WADA to gain some press/pr.
NOP has had plenty of tests and USADA scoured every piece of evidence they could get their hands on and interviewed anybody that could state their name in a multi year investigation. End result never a positive test on any NOP athlete, nobody caught, just assumptive conclusions against a coach.
LoneStarXC wrote:
casual obsever wrote:
Yeah right. Let me guess: a very tough internal investigation, with no details published, that will result in "nothing to see here".
Unfortunately, I think this is how the “investigation” will end up. WADA just wants to create the appearance of doing something. Like the Jama Aden saga, where a police raid literally found 19 syringes pre-loaded with EPO, Aden was arrested, but nothing happened to the athletes.
And nothing happened to Aden, either. (You know, the guy that mo farah doesn't really know.)
More than one way to dope wrote:
ncrecuvuer wrote:
+1
Shoot, if they're the most tested athletes on Earth with no doping positives, they must have a helluva sophisticated doping regimen. I think it's funny how they pushed the infusion limit on a perfectly legal drug, then did a testosterone experiment, but everyone acts like all the athletes over there are taking EPO with some masking agent no one has ever heard off.
There's blood transfusion that some endurance athletes are engaging in (distance running, cycling, XC skiing). An athlete using transfusions could be tested hundreds of times a year and never test positive for an ESA or a masking agent because they're not taking any. And as long as the athlete doesn't go "full-throttle" on the transfusions, they can stay within their thresholds and not trip their ABP.
Supposedly, there is a test for an ingredient (?) only seen in blood that has been transferred from a bag. So there is a way. Apologise for my English.
rekrunner wrote:
Yes. I fantasized what may be one possible outcome -- I guess you mean based on uninformed information.
Well, actually "Armstronglivs" created that fantasy, and I just agreed it was one possible outcome.
Paula didn't decide that NOP athletes were clean, but that they needed to be defended out of fairness based on a report that did not implicate any NOP athletes.
Flying Carpet Salesman wrote:
You have just created a fantasy scenario based on uniform information . The media press release would never disclose what "evidence " it has that wasn't disclosed by USADA in the case against Saladbar.
All we have is Paula Radcliffe's uniformed decision that NOP athlete's are clean . I expect Jordan H and Rupp will come out soon saying they were actually coached by Pete.
No No No . Paula believes all athletes associated with a taint program should be BANNED . All the athletes , clean or not .
She says it doesn't matter , BAN everyone associated .
https://www.cnn.com/2016/07/27/sport/olympic-russian-doping-scandal/index.htmlSalazar was banned for using a process that is banned by WADA. Infusing too much of a substance in certain period of time. In his case he was using a IV to give an athlete a high volume of L- Creatine. L-Creatine is not a banned substance but the process he used was. There is evidence that Ritzenhein, Erdmann, Mo and Galen received these infusions. If they did they could be in violation and subject to the penalty as Salazar. WADA should investigate.
LordEric44 wrote:
No No No . Paula believes all athletes associated with a taint program should be BANNED . All the athletes , clean or not .
She says it doesn't matter , BAN everyone associated .
Hahaha, Lady Hypocrisy at her best.
At least nowadays articles don't pretend anymore that she is fighting for transparency.
olyrun wrote:
Salazar was banned for using a process that is banned by WADA. Infusing too much of a substance in certain period of time. In his case he was using a IV to give an athlete a high volume of L- Creatine. L-Creatine is not a banned substance but the process he used was. There is evidence that Ritzenhein, Erdmann, Mo and Galen received these infusions. If they did they could be in violation and subject to the penalty as Salazar. WADA should investigate.
L-Carnitine.
There is no such thing as L-Creatine.
There is just Creatine.
Differnet substance. NOP was not taking IV Creatine.
Rupp the doper wrote:
Kara the hypocrite wrote:
Will Kara be investigated as well? Or only current NOP?
She is pretty much retired. Meanwhile the real hypocrite is Rupp who is trying to make the Olympic team.
Saying she is "pretty much retired" is another way of saying "she is not really retired."
Her brand follows from her running career and, now, from her whistle-blowing. We should encourage whistle-blowers, but doing so doesn't give you the right to cheat.
Kara has a suspect history, and if she's as innocent as she claims, she'll welcome and cooperate with a thorough investigation into her past to clear the air.
Dr. Huh? wrote:
olyrun wrote:
Salazar was banned for using a process that is banned by WADA. Infusing too much of a substance in certain period of time. In his case he was using a IV to give an athlete a high volume of L- Creatine. L-Creatine is not a banned substance but the process he used was. There is evidence that Ritzenhein, Erdmann, Mo and Galen received these infusions. If they did they could be in violation and subject to the penalty as Salazar. WADA should investigate.
L-Carnitine.
There is no such thing as L-Creatine.
There is just Creatine.
Differnet substance. NOP was not taking IV Creatine.
So what's all the hoopla with this "L-Carnitine?" Is it suppose to be the new rocket fuel for endurance athletes? Rocket fuel was the most proven & prevalent endurance drug in the history of endurance sports - so this L-Carnitine would have a tough act to follow.
Baltsu wrote:
practical questions wrote:
Hello,
I have a practical question, which is, "What resources, expertise, and ability to thoroughly investigate athletes does WADA have that surpasses what USADA has?
WADA can re-test the samples. Those samples are good for 8 years and they have done that kind of tests for example regarding the medalists in Peking 2008. So WADA can re-test all the samples of the NOP athletes that are still available.
There won't be anything to see there because it appears WADA only re-tests samples of athletes from Russia and former Eastern-block nations. ?
https://www.athleticsintegrity.org/disciplinary-process/provisional-suspensions-in-forceYou haven't quite grasped that it's your own inconsistency of approach that you have just revealed. But whatever approach you choose to take, it will always ensure you are right, won't it?
Unless individual athletes are investigated - which, as the word suggests, must mean more than re-testing them - it is not an investigation. As far as I am aware, this did not happen in the USADA investigation of Salazar; the information on NOP athletes was a corollary of a targeted investigation of him only. The task now confronting WADA - if it is to do its job - has widened considerably. Without athletes blowing the whistle on each other (as occurred with Lance Armstrong with allegations by former team-mates) I doubt WADA will be able to come up with much - except some more smoke perhaps, but no fire.
Let's get to the bottom of this wrote:
Dr. Huh? wrote:
L-Carnitine.
There is no such thing as L-Creatine.
There is just Creatine.
Differnet substance. NOP was not taking IV Creatine.
So what's all the hoopla with this "L-Carnitine?" Is it suppose to be the new rocket fuel for endurance athletes? Rocket fuel was the most proven & prevalent endurance drug in the history of endurance sports - so this L-Carnitine would have a tough act to follow.
L-carnitine is derived from an amino acid and is supposed to help with carbohydrate metabolism and reduce lactic acid accumulation. A 2011 paper found that supplementing l-carnitine (2 g twice a day for 42 weeks) increased work output by 11%.
https://journals.humankinetics.com/view/journals/ijsnem/28/2/article-p178.xmlHow about testing the likelihood of all the top athletes being stricken from a young age with thyroid issues and asthma?
Thank goodness for Al “CVS” Salazar. He was able to precisely diagnose his runners and properly treat them (as if they were his own low voiced children).
LoneStarXC wrote:
Let's get to the bottom of this wrote:
So what's all the hoopla with this "L-Carnitine?" Is it suppose to be the new rocket fuel for endurance athletes? Rocket fuel was the most proven & prevalent endurance drug in the history of endurance sports - so this L-Carnitine would have a tough act to follow.
L-carnitine is derived from an amino acid and is supposed to help with carbohydrate metabolism and reduce lactic acid accumulation. A 2011 paper found that supplementing l-carnitine (2 g twice a day for 42 weeks) increased work output by 11%.
https://journals.humankinetics.com/view/journals/ijsnem/28/2/article-p178.xml
Increased work output by 11%! Wow!...that's incredible! Is that why Salazar got all excited and sent that email to Armstrong? L-Carnitine may be the new rocket fuel - that must be the reason why some NOP athletes have been lighting-it up over the years. And being a legal supplement there's no risk of ever testing positive or blowing your ABP. This would be a game changer PES (performance-enhancing supplement).
How has WADA and USADA not been investigating them already when they've spent years investigating a coach they gave a four year sanction to?
Hounddogharrier wrote:
“But..., but...., I just worked with Pete Julian , I don’t know who Alberto even is. “
Idiot
rekrunner wrote:
It seems like I've already answered this question in at least two other threads.
I'm not aware of any IAAF "most likely to dope" list, and the "most at risk of doping" list does not factor at all into any of my thinking.
My views on the likelihood of any NOP athlete doping are based on the complete totality of all publicly known information, culminating in the recent addition of the findings of the AAA Panel report, except the IAAF "most at risk of doping" list.
.C'mon...man, you're being pedantic as usual (imagine that. Lol). The "Inside The Games" report has it titled:
"Kenya and Ethiopia identified as among countries most likely to dope as IAAF introduce new regulations."
So, you're just splitting hairs and you know it: "most likely to dope" and "most at risk to dope" are basically the same. You're one strange cat as they said back in the day when I was a youngster growing up in the 60s. Lol.
https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1068060/kenya-and-ethiopia-identified-as-among-countries-most-likely-to-dope-as-iaaf-introduce-new-regulationsOn the NOP athletes: Since none of them has ever failed a drug test, been banned ref an ABP hit, caught with doping products, etc. - they're all clean and green in your books?