Do you consider this the proper way to do a tempo workout?

The head coach wrote:

I find a lot of runners at various levels, saying they ran x time for their tempo and it is very close to a flat out race.

Unless they are training for the marathon, no. Tempo runs should be about marathon pace to about what one can run for a hour, that's the range one should shoot for.

£££££ wrote:

The head coach wrote:

I find a lot of runners at various levels, saying they ran x time for their tempo and it is very close to a flat out race.

Unless they are training for the marathon, no. Tempo runs should be about marathon pace to about what one can run for a hour, that's the range one should shoot for.

3 to 5 mile tempos are fine. STFU!

Tempo leader wrote:

£££££ wrote:

Unless they are training for the marathon, no. Tempo runs should be about marathon pace to about what one can run for a hour, that's the range one should shoot for.

3 to 5 mile tempos are fine. STFU!

Did I say 3-5 mile tempos are wrong or bad?

£££££ wrote:

Tempo leader wrote:

3 to 5 mile tempos are fine. STFU!

Did I say 3-5 mile tempos are wrong or bad?

Basically!

Tempo leader wrote:

£££££ wrote:

Did I say 3-5 mile tempos are wrong or bad?

Basically!

No I didn't. Work on your reading comprehension.

Good plan. But will they listen to your advice afterwards or will they still want to race each other in training?

£££££ wrote:

Tempo leader wrote:

Basically!

No I didn't. Work on your reading comprehension.

It never ceases to amaze me how braindead some posters on here come off as.

Moving on, in response to your (£££££'s) suggestion, I think marathon pace is a bit slow for a tempo when training for 5k (or whatever it is they'll race). 1hr pace for 3-5 miles is a better option IMO. Anyway a high schooler's TRUE marathon pace is probably going to be a much poorer equivalent than their 5k.

Letsrun is not the cool wrote:

£££££ wrote:

No I didn't. Work on your reading comprehension.

It never ceases to amaze me how braindead some posters on here come off as.

Moving on, in response to your (£££££'s) suggestion, I think marathon pace is a bit slow for a tempo when training for 5k (or whatever it is they'll race). 1hr pace for 3-5 miles is a better option IMO. Anyway a high schooler's TRUE marathon pace is probably going to be a much poorer equivalent than their 5k.

For a 17 min 5k runner, that's equivalent to a 2:43 marathon on VDOT. Yes, I know that most high schoolers that run 17 min for 5k can't run that for the marathon. But anyways, that's a 6:13 mile pace. So doing that pace for 3-5 miles would be a good early season workout for a 17 min 5k runner. Also having a range is good to have when doing tempo runs, for example a 17 min 5k runner projected 60 minute pace would be about 5:50. So to have a range of 5:50 to 6:15 per mile is better than to be strict and say you can only do it at x pace.

Time for the classic:

https://www.letsrun.com/news/2006/09/wejo-speaks-why-i-sucked-in-college/

Exactly!

.

The first few years in college I ran tempos like that. I raced very poorly. Then I started to train at appropriate paces and I had big jumps in my PR's and became an all-american.

Some examples of tempo paces. If you're training for 5k and you run around 15 flat (4:50 ish pace) I think you should be able to do a 4 mile tempo at 5:05-5:10 pace. If you're training for 8k in college and running around 25 flat (about 5:00 pace) you should be able to handle a 5 mile tempo at around 5:10-5:15 pace. Running much faster than these paces during tempo workouts is getting too close to the race pace and you're not doing the workout correctly. There's a reason you don't race an 8k every week or twice per week, you need to workout at the appropriate paces to get better.

Running the workouts at a more controlled effort lets you get in good work without destroying your body, and you will get stronger and eventually race faster.

i like it!

one way to keep them from racing it - don't start them all together....this will make it harder for you timing them....but since time is not the goal (feel is) i would send them off in singles or pairs or maybe small groups of runners who normally race together. and the goal is really for them to monitor their effort more than it is for you to monitor their effort (only they can really know how hard they are working) they need to learn to trust themselves on this

also having them do the same distance as the race might be another thing to rethink - not that 3 miles is a bad distance, but since this is just a training run, i might shorten it to two miles or even lengthen it to 4 miles (if i though they were going to go too fast i would tell them to stop at 2; if i thought they were going to stay well controlled i might have them go 4). Personally, i would even let them decide how far to go vs. having a preset distance during the workout. If they only go 2 miles, i might add a couple 400-600 after the tempo or even a 2nd mile tempo.

when you train by feel, number and distance do not need to be set in stone.

i like your idea of not letting them warm-up too much. I do it the same way. Essentially you are wanting them to spend the first 800 to mile warming into the temp so that they will not be running the same pace the whole way. Once they get into that zone, then their pace can be consistent. But even then, if they are really listening to their body they should pushing at times and pulling (back) at times. This is very hard to teach, but a very important part of smart racing. this teaches them that sometime even slowing down just a little at various points in the race (like after a big hill, etc) can help them recovery quicker and get back on pace faster...plus they are able to race the whole race vs running hard the first 1/2 or so and then running slower all the rest of the way (as most runner do). this is why their race splits often tail off so much.

by during the workout = i mean tell them this is a tempo run, but the actual distance of how far they go is up to each person to decide (not before the temp) but during the tempo they would make this decision based on how they are feeling. Feeling stress, strained, tired = then stop at 2. Feeling controlled = keep going up to 4 miles.

For high schoolers I think it’s better to do cruise intervals. That way you can monitor their pace more readily. Example would be 8 x 1k at 10-15k pace with just 1 minutes rest.

Coach LL wrote:

For high schoolers I think it’s better to do cruise intervals. That way you can monitor their pace more readily. Example would be 8 x 1k at 10-15k pace with just 1 minutes rest.

Agreed. How is this coach going to 'monitor' his athletes if he doesn't even know what distance they are running?

kmaclam wrote:

Coach LL wrote:

For high schoolers I think it’s better to do cruise intervals. That way you can monitor their pace more readily. Example would be 8 x 1k at 10-15k pace with just 1 minutes rest.

Agreed. How is this coach going to 'monitor' his athletes if he doesn't even know what distance they are running?

Either:

A. run it with them.

or

B. do it on a short loop.

"Tempo run" is a vague sort of term - means different things to different people.

Whatever the training objective, everyone agrees a Tempo run is run at some target pace specific to the each person's fitness.

A three-mile tempo is fine, though mature athletes run longer tempos, so I am guessing these are developing athletes.

I have never seen tempos performed as a group workout. Most folks seem to do these on their own.

If that's your structured workout, you should provide a target split for each loop specific to each athlete - and they should be able to wear a watch and/or you should call splits so they adjust pace appropriately.

You should leave footwear choice up to the runners - personally, I wouldn't use flats, but would use a light-weight trainer.

Since they will inevitably run it too fast...maybe stop them every loop and hold them for 30-60 secs...but don't tell them beforehand. If they look like they are truly training and not racing, you can just wave them through. It's tough getting kids to execute these sort of workouts without racing...no matter what you tell them.