Canadian sub-elite (David Freake) busted for EPO and other stuff

Gravvvy wrote:

I've always suspected the top masters in my age group were doping, especially when they're running similar times at 40-50 years old as when they were in college . This certainly helps my assumption.

Maybe they are doping. I know that a lot of people in that age range are taking testosterone. However, don't assume that they must be. Better and more training, combined with some health, were enough for me to equal and surpass most of my college times in my forties.

NERunner053 wrote:

Maybe I missed it but how did this guy even get tested?

On the elite athlete list for the Ottawa marathon race weekend (presumably based off shorter distance performances).

CCES would have randomly selected a number of athletes from the elite pool prior to the race (but wouldn't inform the athletes until after the race).

Dropping out (or running a crappy race) wouldn't negate that random selection.

Calling a 2:33 marathoner "sub-elite" is giving him way too much credit.

Creaky Bones wrote:

Looks like he won the Toronto Marathon, so that's probably why he got tested.

Why is money being wasted testing this guy when the majority of elites are doping. What a waste of resources.

LMAO this guy was going harrrdddd. Anybody know what his progression was, you'd think he might have had an insane jump being on all this stuff.

Dumber than a bag of rocks though to get busted with all that. In competition too. JFL.

Even bigger JFL at DNP. It decoupled the electron transport chain. Instead of making ATP for energy protons just get shuttled across the gradient and you get heat generation with no energy. It can jack your metabolism up to insane levels (50% increase in BMR) but for a marathon....uhm...being hot is bad. Not having energy is bad.

Like this guy is genuinely just a total moron.

This honestly makes me sad. This guy has to feel pretty humiliated, especially since presumably running IS one of the most important things in his life, hobby or not -- why else would you dope at that level? I can see the rationale being (from his perspective) that since he's not a major elite, he's not stealing opportunities from others. It would seem like a victimless crime. And running must bring him a lot of joy and meaning, and so why not take some shortcuts that let him run faster (thereby enjoying it more)?

But... ugh. Then I go back to the stark reality that for 99.9% of us this is a HOBBY. Hobbies are meant for enjoyment. Let time do its thing and stop trying to fight it. Most of us won't be going to the Olympics, just take enjoyment in the effort and in chasing goals, no matter what they are.

He had a very popular blog, where he would write huge blog posts with thousands of words.

He had a Twitter with almost 1k followers, and posted 2k tweets, ALL related to running. That guy was LIVING for the sport (but not from it). He deleted his Twitter after being busted, he lost his self-respect and status with his followers. Definitely the right thing to do.

I'm glad the doping agency saved him. The stuff he was on, WOULD have killed him in some time. He only had 61s 400m speed - with that low talent/speed, you get maxed out pretty quickly on your 10k/Half times, doping was the only thing that kept him in the game.

Of course good he was busted. But as so often when you make a comment it gets wrong.

Running 61 sec 400m speed won't limit you very much at the longer distances as you might think. Robert de Castella had problems to run sub 60 sec !

Calling A Spade A Spade wrote:

Calling a 2:33 marathoner "sub-elite" is giving him way too much credit.

108 half. My guess is the guy figured if he could get away with doping he could run sub 220. I would expect doping is much more prevalent among well to do sub elites than elite athletes. The elite athlete knows he will be tested and some guy who is 10 minutes off the half marathon wr, almost a min a mile, is not expecting it.

Correcting you again wrote:

Of course good he was busted. But as so often when you make a comment it gets wrong.

Running 61 sec 400m speed won't limit you very much at the longer distances as you might think. Robert de Castella had problems to run sub 60 sec !

Castella ran 28:56 as 19-year old. You think you can run a sub 29 with 61s 400m speed? LOL. Not even sub 30. His 400m time was probably in the mid 50s at worst. Same with Salazar who apparently couldn't break 60 - those are just myths.

He also ran a 8:00 3k, which is 2:40/k pace. According to you, he would struggle at 2:33/k pace for 400m, which again, is impossible.

My self and a bunch of guys I train with can't run sub 61 and we run marathons in the 2:30s-mid 2:40s and have 5ks in the 15-16 min range. The only guy I know who could legit break 60s couldn't break 17min in the 5k.

At that 400 speed, he was never going to be elite. Progressing as he did may only have been possible by doping. But he was clearly passionate about running and seems to have strongly connected identity and self worth to accomplishment in running. He wasn't doping for so much for medals and money as much as for positive affirmation. And that isn't just gone, now, but but reversed. I'm surprised he wasn't given a 2-year suspension, though I guess it doesn't really matter. The stigma of being publicly-shamed as a doper is a life-long sentence. He's done in this sport. A sub-elite being tested after dropping out of a race says to me he was ratted out. This was no "random" test, but performed based on a tip/complaint.

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

I'm glad the doping agency saved him. The stuff he was on, WOULD have killed him in some time. He only had 61s 400m speed - with that low talent/speed, you get maxed out pretty quickly on your 10k/Half times, doping was the only thing that kept him in the game.

LM wrote:

LMAO this guy was going harrrdddd. Anybody know what his progression was, you'd think he might have had an insane jump being on all this stuff.

Dumber than a bag of rocks though to get busted with all that. In competition too. JFL.

Even bigger JFL at DNP. It decoupled the electron transport chain. Instead of making ATP for energy protons just get shuttled across the gradient and you get heat generation with no energy. It can jack your metabolism up to insane levels (50% increase in BMR) but for a marathon....uhm...being hot is bad. Not having energy is bad.

Like this guy is genuinely just a total moron.

He’s a dopey doper.

I agree, but that 4-year ban was absolutely justified. This wasn't just a case of mild doping, but MORE SEVERE than elites are doping.

EPO - okay, elites who are doping take that.

But the other things are prohibited to be even used on human, cause cancer and/or are highly toxic and even in small amounts lead to instant death. Mice became super-runners after taking them, but got cancer and shortly died after. They can ONLY be purchased on the black market. The guy needs to be banned for 4-years to get the drugs out of his system, if he starts competing again after two years and still has some drugs left and decides to take them again it could be even worse.

Wolf's Bane wrote:

Calling A Spade A Spade wrote:

Calling a 2:33 marathoner "sub-elite" is giving him way too much credit.

108 half. My guess is the guy figured if he could get away with doping he could run sub 220. I would expect doping is much more prevalent among well to do sub elites than elite athletes. The elite athlete knows he will be tested and some guy who is 10 minutes off the half marathon wr, almost a min a mile, is not expecting it.

The elites just know how to cover their tracks. So they would not show up to a race glowing. Freake figured he wouldn’t be tested, so he raced on full rocket sauce.

I didn't say Castella couldn't break 60. I said he had problems to do it.Definitely more close to 60 than 55. I used to train with him, so I know.

One of my good friends ran 2:18:5x for the marathon and cannot break 60 in the 400. We ran together in college and he didn't break 60 once despite lots of repeat 400s workouts where most of the team ran at least a couple reps under 60. As far as I know, he never broke 60 in high school, either.

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

Correcting you again wrote:

Of course good he was busted. But as so often when you make a comment it gets wrong.

Running 61 sec 400m speed won't limit you very much at the longer distances as you might think. Robert de Castella had problems to run sub 60 sec !

Castella ran 28:56 as 19-year old. You think you can run a sub 29 with 61s 400m speed? LOL. Not even sub 30. His 400m time was probably in the mid 50s at worst. Same with Salazar who apparently couldn't break 60 - those are just myths.

He also ran a 8:00 3k, which is 2:40/k pace. According to you, he would struggle at 2:33/k pace for 400m, which again, is impossible.

Wrong again wrote:

I didn't say Castella couldn't break 60. I said he had problems to do it.Definitely more close to 60 than 55. I used to train with him, so I know.

In what scenario was he trying to break 60 in training?

He ran the last 400 in Rotterdam in 61.

While there may be mitigating circumstances, the published CCES decision simply states because "the athlete’s sample contained both prohibited and specified substances, the standard four (4) year sanction for a prohibited as described above was proposed by the CCES..." I suspect presence of 2-4-dinitrophenol creates need for strong public deterrent. This diet aid has caused hundreds of deaths, many recently, and there is a WADA/Interpol alert specifically pertaining to it.

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

...that 4-year ban was absolutely justified. This wasn't just a case of mild doping, but MORE SEVERE than elites are doping.

.