June Eastwood Update

I wonder if next week they will pick two female runners to make up for this week

hiyo trigger! wrote:

This has really got them triggered.

Interestingly it's the only buzz on NCAA XC at all this year.

June followed the rules and is eligible to compete in the women's division. End of that story and nothing any of you idiots say has any bearing. But by all means, bray and caterwaul on if that keeps you going. Your opinions are utterly meaningless, and that must really trigger you.

Is there or are there follow up tests done to ensure trans athletes continue treatment to lower their T levels, or is it more based on good faith, which I suspect might be the case ?

Well, Jonathan Eastwood was a 14.40 guy, then after transtioning to female became a 17-19 mins person. I think now June is improving and may get as fast as 16.00-16.30.

Thoughts ?

Eastwood comes across as nice and honorable, but I still think her former self gives her an advantage, even with diminished T levels, but once again how does the NCAA check on that, or do they in fact follow up at all ?

magicchef wrote:

I wonder if next week they will pick two female runners to make up for this week

I am reminded of the "She Built NYC Project" in which New York City, led by Mayor DeBlasio's wife, Chirlane McCray, purported to identify 7 women worthy of statues for having built New York City - and still wound up including two men:

My thoughts, which are not all that well informed so take them with a grain of salt or three.

14:40 as Jonathan while feeling depressed and unable to reveal his identity. If 14:40 men = 16:33 woman (88.6% conversion factor male to female) then it wouldn't be surprising to see June run slightly faster than that 16:33 equivalent as she would likely run better while generally feeling happier since that's the effect negative and positive emotions have on most of us.

Personally, I think June hasn't fully transitioned yet. I 100% trust she's started the process and done so for as long as the rules require ahead of time, but something doesn't feel right yet. She's not as feminine as I suspect she will be in a year or two from now as the hormones change her structure and composition more. It was one thing to see the still photos, but that couple second video clip where June is shadowing the lead runner/s there is that gut reaction of "those aren't equals racing each other".

I fully support everyone's right to live their life the way they see fit, but on a sporting level it would appear to me 12 months of hormone treatment is not enough for people transitioning from male to female. It shouldn't be a surprise either, we don't go through puberty in 12 months. How much time does it take from the onset of puberty until one is a young adult from a physical perspective? Something like 5-8 years?

Ultimately, June is following the rules laid out by the NCAA. If you don't agree with it, your concerns should be addressed to them. Basically, don't hate the player, hate the game, right?

The point is how do the NCAA follow up on those rules ? There are no precedents, leaving Eastwood to basically say she is following the rules, but theoretically allowing her to not follow them, if she were dishonest -,but actually do not think she is dishonest, but saying the system might be open to abuse if the NCAA rules turn out to have a self check honor system in place after initial evaluation. Just saying/asking ?

Jimmy Six wrote:

Personally, I think June hasn't fully transitioned yet. I 100% trust she's started the process and done so for as long as the rules require ahead of time, but something doesn't feel right yet. She's not as feminine as I suspect she will be in a year or two from now as the hormones change her structure and composition more. It was one thing to see the still photos, but that couple second video clip where June is shadowing the lead runner/s there is that gut reaction of "those aren't equals racing each other".

I felt the same way seeing the video, as compared to seeing photos.... "wow, that is a very.... tall... girl Montana has there..." It could also be my imagination, but I wonder if there was anything to the somewhat odd gesture the winner made at the end and in what seemed like a very "I'm choosing my words carefully here" answer to the question in the video that was phrased something like "what were you thinking when 'Montana' came up behind you?"

But as you rightly say, it's all a gut reaction, which is just as true for the people smashing their keyboards in anger at the mere mention of June elsewhere in this thread.

I have nothing scientific to contribute either way, but I had a thought recently that, insofar as the battle for trans acceptance in society goes, June taking what is currently perceived as a rather extreme (though NCAA-legal) step of jumping into competition with women is kind of a strong play, like a wild opening offer in dealmaking. When this story first came out, Donald Trump Jr. tweeted something to the effect of, I'm fine with trans people living their lives as the gender they want but they shouldn't compete in sports. He just said something similar about a trans woman that won a cycling title the other day.

And while DJT Jr. isn't a politician exactly, he is one of the, I don't know, spokesmen or thought leaders-ish for the current American conservative movement, to some extent. That movement usually acts like the trolls in this thread re: trans persons, and believes they aren't "really" the gender they say they are, or in extreme cases wants to kill them. But by going several steps farther than "just accept me and leave me alone" and saying "hi, I'm a woman now and I'm going run in these races," you wind up getting a fairly major conservative mind to say, "look, fine, okay, you're a woman, that doesn't bother me, but I draw the line at competing as a woman in sports!" For DJT Jr., at least, June took "the line" and threw it several feet to the left. That's an accomplishment in and of itself, no matter how this all turns out, no matter what the NCAA and other governing bodies finally decide their rules should be, even if after this they decide there should be no more trans athletes. She got a big-time right-winger to say he doesn't mind trans people generally speaking,"and it's probably not just the one right-winger now thinking like that.

A couple of things, liberals aren't all fine with M-F in sports or other activist activities, but are on their heels for now and,from your example, conservative DJT jr. Is trying to put the genie back in the bottle a little at a time. I don't think conservatives are open to as much of this as you think and can backlash against their elite representatives, current and future as well. I read a lot today to make me think this is potentially where this situation is at. My bias is that the pendulum has swung past a point that even future cultures won't tolerate , even if it is still swinging past whatever line we might conceive of. Right now I don't think we have a line. I think we have something more akin to a dust storm. It will clear and by the time it does the pendulum will be swinging back. It has to.

Look at the situation at face value, we allowed a man to take some hormone pills, put on makeup and run with women. This is the stuff of an old fiction play telling the story of a dystopian future.

an old story wrote:

Look at the situation at face value, we allowed a man to take some hormone pills, put on makeup and run with women. This is the stuff of an old fiction play telling the story of a dystopian future.

You are right, but the cultural problems on the topic are much bigger. It's going to take a lot more than screeching about XC runners and men on bikes in women's races to turn it towards sanity, but hey , it's a good start, especially when you a backing down someone Rachel McKinnon because his bullying goes way outside of sports.

Truth is less cruel wrote:

Creaky Bones wrote:

You guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Even if you think that it isn't fair from a competitive standpoint, you should be ashamed of yourselves for how you are treating a fellow human being in this thread. I can only hope she's smart enough to stay off Letsrun so she doesn't have to see you bigoted paternalistic morons call her names and demean her.

I think it is immensely more cruel to obscure or withhold the truth from this man. It is apparent that he is a man despite whatever mutilations and other modifications he has had. Playing along with this charade, however deeply it is held, is a far, far, far greater cruelty.

Good point. They cheer on people suffering delusions rather than offer or recommend treatment. Hell, they shout down those who recommend treatment and the delusions carry a hugely increased risk for suicide after transition. Their refusal to recommend or offer treatment to sufferers of gender dysphoria reminds me of the crowds in NYC in the sixties and seventies who enjoyed stood on the streets chanting, "Jump" to despondent people on the ledges of tall buildings.

In 25 years, the societal standard will be whatever the Mexican-American majority decides it is.

Athlete of the week... yet another trophy robbed from a deserving girl!

https://www.facebook.com/grizxc/photos/a.977183508975398/3074261525934242/?type=3&theater

Maggie Bornstein wrote:

Athlete of the week... yet another trophy robbed from a deserving girl!

https://www.facebook.com/grizxc/photos/a.977183508975398/3074261525934242/?type=3&theater

How many Big Sky AOW's did Jonathon win in his three years competing for Montana?

Checks notes: None

What are we attributing June's meteoric rise to June's new level of competition? Hard work, dedication?

Supporters: Please read the names below.

Others Nominated: Kenzie Gaines, EWU; Alison Pray, SUU; Camila Noe, MSU; Abby Lawrence, WSU; Cagnei Duncan, SAC; Taryn O’Neil, NAU; Hunter Storm, PSU, Molly Olsen, ISU.

I'm sure these women have worked hard and are very dedicated too. Too bad they weren't born male and have all the athletic advantages over women that June has. If this was happening to you or a loved one, you wouldn't feel the same way.

It's Not the Shoes wrote:

Others Nominated: Kenzie Gaines, EWU; Alison Pray, SUU; Camila Noe, MSU; Abby Lawrence, WSU; Cagnei Duncan, SAC; Taryn O’Neil, NAU; Hunter Storm, PSU, Molly Olsen, ISU.

I'm sure these women have worked hard and are very dedicated too. Too bad they weren't born male and have all the athletic advantages over women that June has. If this was happening to you or a loved one, you wouldn't feel the same way.

I'm not a big fan of June getting recognized like this and chances are she isn't either, but your logic isn't great on this one. Let's take away June and say Kenzie gets the recognition. What about her athletic advantages over the other girls not even nominated? Are they not very dedicated and hard workers too?

ummmm? come onnnnn. The 'logic' here is that someone born and fully developed male for 21 years has an advantage over the women. Negligible advantages between women relative to those between trans and biological women.

Thank you for that clarification and additional information.