Frank Shorter on a Forgotten Aspect of Aging and Training

Good stuff, thanks Dano (and book 'em.)

agreed 100% w/Frank [&OP]

Who asked /cares?

Where did this quote from Frank Short come from? One of his books? Regardless, I agree with Shorter's comment, but Dave's interpretation of what it means is debatable.

Dave writes, "I'm sure everyone realizes that less intensity and more recovery time is necessary as we age."

I agree that more recovery time is necessary, but the "less intensity" part is misleading. Yes, we should reduce workout volume and speed, but the high intensity effort level needs to stay. In fact, we need more short-term high intensity training to boost testosterone, metabolism, and slow the aging process.

There are outliers, e.g., Ed Whitlock, who can put in long slow miles and stay world class. The rest of us need to follow Frank Shorter's advice to hit the weight room. The body of clinical and anecdotal evidence supporting HIIT training for older athletes is compelling.

Note: By HIIT, I'm referring to the approach taught by Phil Campbell (8x 20-30sec of very high intensity effort that can be weightlifting, elliptical, hill reps, etc.), not the HIIT that's done in Crossfit boxes. Phil calls this the Sprint 8 workout. I met Phil 20 years ago, but I only added the weight HIITs and hill sprints to my routine about 4 years ago.

I like to solicit the help of LetsRun sleuths to find an old study that I can't find anymore.

Years ago, a study (by Harvard?) tracked dedicated weightlifters (bodybuilders, lifters?) as they aged. The study found a gradual decline in performance with each decade, but they found that the perceived exertion level increased faster with age than the decline in performance.

The takeaway, or at least my takeaway, from this study was that older athletes have to push harder than ever in these short duration efforts to slow the loss of performance with age. Since HIIT carries a higher risk of injury, I tend to do the majority of my HIIT with weights instead of running. I also avoid complex movements because the risk of injury is higher when doing HIIT complex movements (Olympic lifts, etc.)

This is an old study. Over five years old and probably more than 10 years old. It would be nice to see it again to see if my interpretation of it still holds. Can anyone find it?

now that I am drawing social security, I find that very few of my peers are willing to hit the weight room or the track for intense work. At races, it shows.

I am all for recreational running for health. But if you intend to be competitive at the state and national level, you have to be willing to suffer through the same sprint/interval workouts we did in HS and college. Maybe not as many I( do speed work on Sundays and Wednesdays), and maybe not as fast (old age is a biotch), but hard work is required to hit those kinds of times.

My training partner is 73. He still pumps out sprint workouts that many HS runners would be proud of. He popped a 2:47 800 in practice last week. I can barely break 3:00 in an 800 these days, but still run 35 minutes for 5 miles on 40-45 mpw.

Hard work is its own reward.

If pain is your enemy, it's kicking your ass.

For the middle-age runner, it depends on your injury history, body type, genetics and all that in terms of doing higher-intensity & faster pace running vs slower intensity. 90% of running-related injuries occur with higher-intensity running.

I played few years of college football in the late 70s and then about a decade of competitive bodybuilding & powerlifting before transitioning to running. I was 5-6, 195 back then and got down to 170 for running and about 165 now - still short & stocky. Major injuries occurred in my early 50s (ruptured tendons) which invariably has led to OA. Any higher-intensity type of running only gets me injured & iritates the arthritic joints, so I need to do slower, less intense running. Plus heavier bodies have higher ground impact-forces which already starts to increase with the aging process as we lose the shock-absorbing capacity in our joints. I do my HIIT workouts on a spin bike or elliptical - so I agree with you there that HIIT is good for the aging process.

I do some modified HIIT training with the weights, but generally go slow & steady working on form (I also have a bad back from a MV accident). If middle-aged folks are going to hit the free weights, then form becomes paramount - I've seen too many older people blow their back, knees & shoulders out lifting too heavy & improperly. Many of them never return back to the gym.

homer.and.gomer wrote:

now that I am drawing social security, I find that very few of my peers are willing to hit the weight room or the track for intense work. At races, it shows.

...

If you don't mind sharing, what does your strength training regimen look like? I'm turning 53 next week and am flirting with getting into masters track. At 20 years junior, there's no way I could run a 2:47 800 right now, which is sad to say on my part. I'd like to train for 800/1500 I think. I've recently started going back to the gym, but only once per week as I'm training for a half marathon (probably my last). Thanks for your input.

While I'm no stud like those on the 50+ thread or in this one, can hold my own here and there. I don't do HIIT or weights

Coyote Montane wrote:

While I'm no stud like those on the 50+ thread or in this one, can hold my own here and there. I don't do HIIT or weights

Hit return too fast.

I do general aerobic training 80-90% of the time, but run weekly tempos and interval sessions (usually 3-5 minute reps with a short recovery) most weeks, and am pretty consistent with a couple sets of pick ups hill reps every week (e.g., 4-8X 20 seconds).

It has served me well, and I've been age grading in the 90s at sea level over past couple years. That may be weak by letsrun masters standards, but I'm fairly happy with how things have gone.

Coyote Montane wrote:

While I'm no stud like those on the 50+ thread or in this one, can hold my own here and there. I don't do HIIT or weights

False modesty or tongue-in-cheek?

Any 73 yo who can pop out a 2:47 800 is a bit of a genetic freak.

Agreed.

Also, with all due respect, Frank seems confused.

If you “lock on” to an amount + intensity of training and keep that going, why would you lose muscle? You won’t.

It’s use it OR lose it, not use it AND lose it.

Why doesn't this clown follow his own advice? When is the last time he ran 10k without stopping? The audacity of non-runners to shove training advice into the ether is offensive. Cierpinski won. Move on. Even Ringo has faded into well-deserved obscurity.

Mr. Reasonable is back. wrote:

Any 73 yo who can pop out a 2:47 800 is a bit of a genetic freak.

That was Gene Dykes' fastest 800 time last year...in a race!

There is a guy on the T&F message board (lonewolf, a long-time official - including the big ones - and very good athlete). Since his 50s, I think, he runs faster for 400 than his age; he is in his mid-80s.

As for me, I keep trying to run 10k faster than my age; it is easy so far but in a few years it will be harder. Many more things accumulate in older runners that cause us to back off, take time off, etc. Arthritis, torn menisci, herniated disks, torn muscle, ...

We typically find that the result of high intensity is injury and increasing risk that we won't be able to continue running. I know others who have made other choices; often they are people who were pretty good natural runners but did not do a lot competitively post high school or college and now are wanting to reach their potential. But it often goes wrong. For me, I want to continue to be able to do my annual goal and to be able to walk a lot, ride, and run in a measured way that is much harder than most but not aimed at being competitive.

Dano wrote:

Adjust to a body that is changing as you age in order to run and race at your optimal level.

https://livingthestotanlife.blogspot.com/2019/10/frank-shorter-on-forgotten-aspect-of.html

Good stuff. I have been running for 38 years but lifting weights for 39! Now at 52 still trying to hit the gym 3 x per week and running 25 miles a week. If you are over 50 and you don't do resistance training or have a job that is hard labor you really need to.

I try to follow Sly's incredible workouts - the guys is freaking 72 years old and could pass for some of the 55 year olds at my gym! I find myself doing much more weight training & non-weightbearing cardio due to a long history of chronic injuries and now arthritis. Sly has a few videos on his diet but I wonder what kind of supplements he's using? Anyone here use any OTC supplements such as creatine, BCAA's, DHEA, etc?

https://youtu.be/9b1SXFvk5Eo