See title.
See title.
Yes.
Definitely.
Every performance faster than his was done either by or following Kipchoge or Bekele. The shoes had nothing to do with it, it's all about those two trailblazers who were the first who dared start fast enough to finish that fast. A very few of those who went with them got lucky.
Without Kipchoge, it's about 50/50 whether anyone at all would have beaten Kimetto yet. And in case you've forgotten, Kimetto had his own supposed "energy return" shoes from Adidas. All the major brands have been continually repackaging that nonsense for decades, at least since the rollout of Nike Air.
Bad Wigins wrote:
Every performance faster than his was done either by or following Kipchoge or Bekele. The shoes had nothing to do with it, it's all about those two trailblazers who were the first who dared start fast enough to finish that fast. A very few of those who went with them got lucky.
Without Kipchoge, it's about 50/50 whether anyone at all would have beaten Kimetto yet. And in case you've forgotten, Kimetto had his own supposed "energy return" shoes from Adidas. All the major brands have been continually repackaging that nonsense for decades, at least since the rollout of Nike Air.
Sort of.
Kimetto proved that the 12 drop was ideal, and that forefoot running was a fail, it's all about the almost heal-strike. Otherwise, the shoe isn't working for you, and in the case of the Cheaterfly, would actually hurt. Ask Rupp about that one. I'm running fast days in the 12 drop Boost shoes to this day, they claim 20 percent energy return. Don't ask me about those Blade Runner shoes. I didn't like those cheater swimsuits, either.
Sort of.
Kimetto proved that the 12 drop was ideal, and that forefoot running was a fail, it's all about the almost heal-strike. Otherwise, the shoe isn't working for you, and in the case of the Cheaterfly, would actually hurt. Ask Rupp about that one. I'm running fast days in the 12 drop Boost shoes to this day, they claim 20 percent energy return. Don't ask me about those Blade Runner shoes. I didn't like those cheater swimsuits, either.[/quote]
Explain this "almost heal-strike"
I hate to ruin the party but Adidas Boost is made of the same Pebax foam that Nike uses in Vaporfly model. So Kimettos record was assisted as well by your logic.
Many act here on these boards like Nike has invented some unique PE technology when in fact Pebax foam has been used by many shoe makers for a decade at least in their premium racing models. The same applies to carbon plate which has been in spikes since 90s.
If you ban VF you'll have to ban Boost, Wave, Gel-Nimbus, Floatride, Speedform and a long list of others that have used Pebax long before Nike did.
Adidas Boost was the first, and it was developed through a partnership with BASF, an enormous chemical company.
Abebe Bikila’s 2:15:16 is the standing legitimate WR
Shoeless wrote:
Abebe Bikila’s 2:15:16 is the standing legitimate WR
Haha yes. This.
Dennis Palmetto wrote:
https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9647871
Adjusting top times to account for shoes? At what point were you happy with shoes? 1927? So the shoes worn in 1927 are the latest technology accepted? Or perhaps 1961? 1970? This carry on about shoes is ludicrous. Do you want to go back to Ancient Greece and run bare foot? Is that the only “non cheating” way? Technology changes - we don’t ride in horse and cats anymore. We don’t wash our clothes manually with a wringer. Technology advances - thank goodness - move with the times already.
You Have to be Joking? wrote:
Do you want to go back to Ancient Greece and run bare foot? Is that the only “non cheating” way? Technology changes - we don’t ride in horse and cats anymore. We don’t wash our clothes manually with a wringer. Technology advances - thank goodness - move with the times already.
Sport should not really be about perfomance improvements due to equipment technology changes in competition; it should be about testing the performance of the human body and mind only. This is even more so in a sport like track and field where you have world records recorded and these are supposed to be comparable to marks set in the previous years of the sport. Sport needs to keep to its roots even if the technology of the world is advancing. Having performances that were done barefoot to count as world records could be good start, Bikila probably still holds the "true" marathon world record. I would not be against reinstating cinder tracks either. And yes tennis would be a much better game with wooden rackets - they should be enforced as well - at least in traditional tournaments like Wimbledon.
marshal wrote:
I hate to ruin the party but Adidas Boost is made of the same Pebax foam that Nike uses in Vaporfly model. So Kimettos record was assisted as well by your logic.
Many act here on these boards like Nike has invented some unique PE technology when in fact Pebax foam has been used by many shoe makers for a decade at least in their premium racing models. The same applies to carbon plate which has been in spikes since 90s.
If you ban VF you'll have to ban Boost, Wave, Gel-Nimbus, Floatride, Speedform and a long list of others that have used Pebax long before Nike did.
Adidas Boost was the first, and it was developed through a partnership with BASF, an enormous chemical company.
https://www.pebaxpowered.com/en/find-product/running/
No, that isn't correct. Boost is a TPU (thermoplastic polyurethane). Pebax is a TPE (Thermoplastic elastomer). Pebax is much lighter than Boost.
You are right that Nike isn't the only company using Pebax though. That link you provided shows some other shoes that use it. Nike, however, is the only company that has managed to combine a carbon plate so well with a light responsive foam. I am sure the other companies are trying to do the same thing but for now Nike has a couple of year's lead on everyone else.
marshal wrote:
I hate to ruin the party but Adidas Boost is made of the same Pebax foam that Nike uses in Vaporfly model. So Kimettos record was assisted as well by your logic.
Many act here on these boards like Nike has invented some unique PE technology when in fact Pebax foam has been used by many shoe makers for a decade at least in their premium racing models. The same applies to carbon plate which has been in spikes since 90s.
If you ban VF you'll have to ban Boost, Wave, Gel-Nimbus, Floatride, Speedform and a long list of others that have used Pebax long before Nike did.
Adidas Boost was the first, and it was developed through a partnership with BASF, an enormous chemical company.
https://www.pebaxpowered.com/en/find-product/running/
It's not the foam thought, is it.
Remove the plate and these ridiculous shoes are an energy sink.
Ban them now.
LOL, you say the carbon plate then? Then ban the Hoka One One Carbon series, New Balance FuelCell and track spikes as well
ooper wrote:
marshal wrote:
I hate to ruin the party but Adidas Boost is made of the same Pebax foam that Nike uses in Vaporfly model. So Kimettos record was assisted as well by your logic.
Many act here on these boards like Nike has invented some unique PE technology when in fact Pebax foam has been used by many shoe makers for a decade at least in their premium racing models. The same applies to carbon plate which has been in spikes since 90s.
If you ban VF you'll have to ban Boost, Wave, Gel-Nimbus, Floatride, Speedform and a long list of others that have used Pebax long before Nike did.
Adidas Boost was the first, and it was developed through a partnership with BASF, an enormous chemical company.
https://www.pebaxpowered.com/en/find-product/running/It's not the foam thought, is it.
Remove the plate and these ridiculous shoes are an energy sink.
Ban them now.
Old Skool wrote:
You Have to be Joking? wrote:
Do you want to go back to Ancient Greece and run bare foot? Is that the only “non cheating” way? Technology changes - we don’t ride in horse and cats anymore. We don’t wash our clothes manually with a wringer. Technology advances - thank goodness - move with the times already.
Sport should not really be about perfomance improvements due to equipment technology changes in competition; it should be about testing the performance of the human body and mind only. This is even more so in a sport like track and field where you have world records recorded and these are supposed to be comparable to marks set in the previous years of the sport. Sport needs to keep to its roots even if the technology of the world is advancing. Having performances that were done barefoot to count as world records could be good start, Bikila probably still holds the "true" marathon world record. I would not be against reinstating cinder tracks either. And yes tennis would be a much better game with wooden rackets - they should be enforced as well - at least in traditional tournaments like Wimbledon.
Cinder tracks started in Victorian times - track and field was a sport for 2500 year before that - a sport will evolve over time. How Old School do you want to go? Following this logic, cinder tracks are cheating compared to grass ...
teague808 wrote:
marshal wrote:
I hate to ruin the party but Adidas Boost is made of the same Pebax foam that Nike uses in Vaporfly model. So Kimettos record was assisted as well by your logic.
Many act here on these boards like Nike has invented some unique PE technology when in fact Pebax foam has been used by many shoe makers for a decade at least in their premium racing models. The same applies to carbon plate which has been in spikes since 90s.
If you ban VF you'll have to ban Boost, Wave, Gel-Nimbus, Floatride, Speedform and a long list of others that have used Pebax long before Nike did.
Adidas Boost was the first, and it was developed through a partnership with BASF, an enormous chemical company.
https://www.pebaxpowered.com/en/find-product/running/No, that isn't correct. Boost is a TPU (thermoplastic polyurethane). Pebax is a TPE (Thermoplastic elastomer). Pebax is much lighter than Boost.
You are right that Nike isn't the only company using Pebax though. That link you provided shows some other shoes that use it. Nike, however, is the only company that has managed to combine a carbon plate so well with a light responsive foam. I am sure the other companies are trying to do the same thing but for now Nike has a couple of year's lead on everyone else.
Most other companies are using Pebax in high density forms for making plates/shankers/stability posts/etc...
ooper wrote:
marshal wrote:
I hate to ruin the party but Adidas Boost is made of the same Pebax foam that Nike uses in Vaporfly model. So Kimettos record was assisted as well by your logic.
Many act here on these boards like Nike has invented some unique PE technology when in fact Pebax foam has been used by many shoe makers for a decade at least in their premium racing models. The same applies to carbon plate which has been in spikes since 90s.
If you ban VF you'll have to ban Boost, Wave, Gel-Nimbus, Floatride, Speedform and a long list of others that have used Pebax long before Nike did.
Adidas Boost was the first, and it was developed through a partnership with BASF, an enormous chemical company.
https://www.pebaxpowered.com/en/find-product/running/It's not the foam thought, is it.
Remove the plate and these ridiculous shoes are an energy sink.
Ban them now.
That’s just not true. The spike plate serve like a traditional torsion bar that most shoes have. The energy return it first and for most the foam.
marshal wrote:
I hate to ruin the party but Adidas Boost is made of the same Pebax foam that Nike uses in Vaporfly model. So Kimettos record was assisted as well by your logic.
Many act here on these boards like Nike has invented some unique PE technology when in fact Pebax foam has been used by many shoe makers for a decade at least in their premium racing models. The same applies to carbon plate which has been in spikes since 90s.
If you ban VF you'll have to ban Boost, Wave, Gel-Nimbus, Floatride, Speedform and a long list of others that have used Pebax long before Nike did.
Adidas Boost was the first, and it was developed through a partnership with BASF, an enormous chemical company.
https://www.pebaxpowered.com/en/find-product/running/
This is blatantly false information. Adidas Boost is not the same Pebax foam that Nike uses.
