The Brits all know that Radcliffe was doping.
And they don't care in the least that Brigid Kosgei is a much better runner.
The Brits all know that Radcliffe was doping.
And they don't care in the least that Brigid Kosgei is a much better runner.
Brit here wrote:
Brit here and I can confirm that there are plenty of people that question Paula Radcliffe over here. If you look at any of the athletics social media groups you will see that there is a pretty significant number of questions levelled at her performance.
Same with Mo. In fact, even casual sports fans are pretty suspicious of him after the Salazar story in the last few weeks. I've had loads of messages from people about this.
I watched Kosgei on Sunday, I cheered her on the same as I did when I watched her win the GNR. But you're out of your mind if you think that an athlete who has shown her improvements and has her agent is not going to have questions asked in the current climate. This is not unreasonable.
+1
TBH, a lot more Brits have been questioning Paula and Mo since the start, and even more so since the Salazar ban, than Americans here have been questioning Brazier or even Rupp.
I have no idea whether Brazier is clean or should be considered suspicious, btw. YMMV thinks he's likely clean, and I respect his opinion.
It just seems odd though - a number of British papers have been all over Mo the last couple of weeks, in fact many before (and one got sued by Mo). The director of UK Athletics Neil Black is being forced to resign. And this is all because of Mo's connection to Salazar.
Chad is lying again about me - the only time I defended Paula was simply to point out Casual Observski's usual $hi t level of reasoning. I thought 60/40 she was guilty before last week, now after watching her excuse NOP I'd put it more 90/10 she's dirty.
Chad - do you honestly think the doping problem began in athletics when Coe became president of the IAAF five years ago??
It continue to stagger me. The top American coach has just been found guilty of doping offences, and it's all about every Brit on Earth being a dirty, cheating scumbag with bad teeth.
I'm accused of racism for pointing out the Kenyan doping problem??
El K - each new Kenyan doping bust proves that every American and Brit runner must be cheating and getting away with it!!!
Chad - America's top coach being busted proves that Coe and the Brits are all lying, cheating, dirty imperialist pigs!!!
If I was as prejudiced and hate filled as these two weirdos I'd honestly seek psychiatric help.
El Keniano wrote:
She's about framed for doping, just you wait.
Ah yes, she'll be "framed." After all, no Rosa athlete has ever been caught doping...
Brit here. Paula was doping and everyone knows it, that doesn't mean Brigid is clean.
Kosgei is a donkey with pure EPO pumping through her veins. No track pedigree, ridiculous progression and beats an insane(ly doped) world record without breaking a sweat.
That run was such a clown show.
I still believe a deal was made to Nike/Salazar to keep the current athletes out of the sanctions. Salazar wasn't practicing his Ghoulish chemistry on ghosts . Also the BBC commentators/ producers knew Radcliffe was a Nike Brand spokes person , and the BBC gave her that avenue. I wouldn't be surprised if Radcliffe wrote her own questions to herself.
crumpet wrote:
there is little real depth in the women's marathon.
I think everyone underestimates the importance of a critical mass of depth in generating fast times.
Women haven't run very many fast marathons because they generally don't have to.
There aren't many sub-2:20 marathons because 2:20 would win most marathons.
2:20 would have been 2nd place Yeshaneh, Ababel's 2:20:51 in Chicago.
When I looked at women's marathon times last year:
- 95 women ran sub-2:23 (almost 2/3rds of which were East African)
- Only 36 non-East African women ran sub-2:23
- only 42 women worldwide ran faster than Ingrid Kristiansen's 2:21 from 1985
These figure don't include 2018 and 2019, so they will be slightly higher today.
There may be a few more, but I only vividly recall three races where the women started fast from the gun:
1) Paula's 2003 world record, where she set off with two male pacemakers until 30K, and one all the way to the finish
2) Boston 2014 where Shalane took off from the gun, and 4 women broke the course record
3) Kosgei's record where she also set off with two male pacemakers
El Keniano wrote:
Led by Mara Yamauchi and Tim Hutchings ...
https://twitter.com/mara_yamauchi/status/1183394715359744000?s=20https://twitter.com/TimHutchings1/status/1183714511678779392?s=20https://twitter.com/TimHutchings1/status/1183905826785910785?s=20
I think the age/experience angle mentioned by Tim in his last post is a red herring...
Hwang Young-cho, Olympic champ in Marathon, at 22
Jan Ullrich, 1997 champ TDF at 23
I am sure others will have more topical examples, but if you are old enough then you are good enough.
dude bro ovett relax man
-so you give us some random percentage of what you think clean/dirty on paula that you never before mentioned and scold me for it? lolz relax old boy your 3:30.77 is prob a lot cleaner than all these sub 3:30s, and stop jizzing in your pants for willis...the dude is a "real" 3:32 guy, two seconds slower than you big guy so chillz it out.
-do i honestly think the doping problem happened when coe came on? oh come on now doggy be real, its been a problem since 1990s. the problem is coe protects paula and picks and chooses his chosen ones. he is like nike (and paid by nike) to protect the "stars" instead of trying to make a clean sport. he defends Mo, paula and al sal....and the bribes and corruption that he was part of and inherited are not good. you would think you wouldnt defend him since you two were rivals but who knows, sly and arnold were enemies now they are pals
-why are you attacking me about americas top coach? are you that dumb? i have been calling out al sal nop for ever. what im pointing out is in most of your rants and so many others on here you(they) claim the UK is clean and pure and blah blah blah. no mo doped, paula doped, dwain chambers doped, and other than that its a small sh*tty island that is well past its golden age, deal with it ok?
-last...you seem to cry waaaaaay to much about the sh*t you get on here....how many times have you been banned for calling out EPO cheats? yeah thats what i thought....why you try to bash on me when i have called out EPO, NOP, renato, rossa WAY F*CKING longer than you have even been on here and banned for it is beyond me. let me know when gary gets you banned, or winstrol gets you banned. till then your a whiny brat bro
Your posts make no logical sense. You state that you think that the clean WR is Noguchi's 2:19:12. So you are perfectly fine with a 31:21 Japanese runner running 2:19. But when Radcliffe, who has a 10k pb that is a minute faster, runs 2:15 it's a sign of doping?
If your 10k is a minute faster, and you are equally as good at the marathon, you should run your marathon 4 minutes faster.
If Radcliffe doped, I don't think anyone thinks she was doping way back in 1999 yet already by then her 10k pb was a minute faster than Noguchi. She had the EPO cheats out sign in 2001.
So by your very own logic, Radcliffe could have been clean.
rekrunner wrote:
I think everyone underestimates the importance of a critical mass of depth in generating fast times.
Women haven't run very many fast marathons because they generally don't have to...
There may be a few more, but I only vividly recall three races where the women started fast from the gun:
1) Paula's 2003 world record, where she set off with two male pacemakers until 30K, and one all the way to the finish
2) Boston 2014 where Shalane took off from the gun, and 4 women broke the course record
3) Kosgei's record where she also set off with two male pacemakers
Yet another post that makes no sense.
2011 NY? You remember that one when Keitany went out in 1:07:56?
What about 2017 London when Keitany went out in 31:17 for the 1st 10k and then halfway in 1:06:54,.
[quote]crumpet wrote:
there is little real depth in the women's marathon.
Its why the US marathoning is full of failed 5 and 10 kers giving it a try.
Its no surprise that improvements are almost generational.[/quote
Have you taken a look at the men?
El Keniano wrote:
Can you imagine the smug "I told you"s if Kosgei were to ever go down? I couldn't bear that.
Yes, and you would "leave and never come back".
I agree with rekrunner's post, it's rare that women really attack the record and if a woman is near world record shape she is probably head and shoulders better than the field and can run a sit-and-kick race. In 2014 Boston Rita Jeptoo ran 2:18, running the last few miles faster than the men's winner. Keitany and Kosgei have run some crazy fast second halfs before this as well.
Paula probably benefitted from a tailwind in her 2:15 (which ARRS normalizes to 2:17:01) which is one reason that record stood for so long.
rojo wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
I think everyone underestimates the importance of a critical mass of depth in generating fast times.
Women haven't run very many fast marathons because they generally don't have to...
There may be a few more, but I only vividly recall three races where the women started fast from the gun:
1) Paula's 2003 world record, where she set off with two male pacemakers until 30K, and one all the way to the finish
2) Boston 2014 where Shalane took off from the gun, and 4 women broke the course record
3) Kosgei's record where she also set off with two male pacemakers
Yet another post that makes no sense.
2011 NY? You remember that one when Keitany went out in 1:07:56?
What about 2017 London when Keitany went out in 31:17 for the 1st 10k and then halfway in 1:06:54,.
I did say "a few more", but fair point -- I do remember those too. It stood out that Keitany took it out so fast.
These kind of aggressive races from the gun stand out as unusual exceptions, while on the men's side, marathons since 2007, when Geb started attacking the world record, have a half dozen to a dozen runners taking it out fast to the half, or even 30K.
If you only have 2 or 3 women as real contenders for the win, they will generally wait to see what the other one does, making the marathon tactical.
I forgot to mention one point is that Paula's 2:15:25 was so intimidating, this also probably discouraged world record attempts until Mary Keitany (as rojo just reminded me) went for it several times. Imagine for a moment that 2003 London didn't organize a world record attempt with male pacers in a women's race (something not universally appreciated at the time) and the record remained Paula's 2:17 from 2002. We probably would have seen a few attempts at that world record a lot sooner than London 2017, when Keitany ran a very sub-optimal 2:17 and Tirunesh stopped with dry heaves, and still ran sub-2:18. Since London 2017, we are seeing a few more women running 2:17s and 2:18s. Kudos for mentioning the ARRS race-time-bias corrections, and the prevailing tailwind.
Hardloper wrote:
I agree with rekrunner's post, it's rare that women really attack the record and if a woman is near world record shape she is probably head and shoulders better than the field and can run a sit-and-kick race. In 2014 Boston Rita Jeptoo ran 2:18, running the last few miles faster than the men's winner. Keitany and Kosgei have run some crazy fast second halfs before this as well.
Paula probably benefitted from a tailwind in her 2:15 (which ARRS normalizes to 2:17:01) which is one reason that record stood for so long.
If she's 16 I'm ,29.
Even a fake Kenyan like you see a Rosa athlete is on EPO. Kiprop Jeptoo him abs and his dad have been doping runners since they switched from the Tour early, 90s.
Radcliffe at least had a track pedigree
yeah the americans dope en masse,and with impunity,across most sports,and they almost never get caught.meanwhile im glad brigid broke paula's record.
Grin and bare it wrote:
El Keniano wrote:
Can you imagine the smug "I told you"s if Kosgei were to ever go down? I couldn't bear that.
Yes, and you would "leave and never come back".
Correct. At least we'd get a respite from his toxic, racist, and inflammatory posts, if only briefly. Take Coevett with you while you're at it. You two with rekrunner and that igotbanned idiot absolutely ruin threads.
So sick of this $hit wrote:
Grin and bare it wrote:
Yes, and you would "leave and never come back".
Correct. At least we'd get a respite from his toxic, racist, and inflammatory posts, if only briefly. Take Coevett with you while you're at it. You two with rekrunner and that igotbanned idiot absolutely ruin threads.
+1
It is sad that we will never again see a World Record at a REAL Distance (Meaning 800, 1500, 3000, 5000, 10000, 3k Steeple, Half Marathon, Marathon) where there is not more talk about the HARD WORK ?Training that got the Person there, than there is suspicions of Doping and in this case magic shoes that makes you 3 minutes faster.
As a fan, I consider Athletes are fair and NOT cheating until proven otherwise, (I was sad when Alberto Salazar who was a childhood hero was caught, as i had always seen him as A Motivated, Dedicated and Hard Working Athlete which turned out to not be true) but there is NO WAY to enjoy the sport if I think EVERYONE who runs a great time is a cheater.
I may be kidding myself, but I still think most people are good and fair and believe in good sportsmanship meaning winning or losing fair and square.
Until an Athletes Performance is annulled, I will believe it was done honestly, not by cheating.