Sifan Hassan = GOAT! 3:51.95 FROM THE FRONT!!

All of these guys insecure over her speed...jeez...She's still 20 seconds off from the fastest guys in the 1500 meter...chillout...don't feel so threatened by her.

Wikipedia has already updated her performance as a European record:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1500_metres

Wow im surprised her time is only the 6th fastest...but scrub the Chinese ones and she's the second fastest. We know the Chinese ones are likely dirty.

Women

Correct as of October 2019.[16]

Rank Res. Athlete Nation Date Location Ref

1 3:50.07 Genzebe Dibaba Ethiopia 17 July 2015 Fontvieille [17]

2 3:50.46 Yunxia Qu China 11 September 1993 Beijing

3 3:50.98 Bo Jiang China 18 October 1997 Shanghai

4 3:51.34 Yinglai Lang China 18 October 1997 Shanghai

5 3:51.92 Junxia Wang China 11 September 1993 Beijing

6 3:51.95 Sifan Hassan Netherlands 5 October 2019 Doha

7 3:52.47 Tatyana Kazankina Soviet Union 13 August 1980 Zürich

8 3:53.91 Lili Yin China 18 October 1997 Shanghai

Earlyboy wrote:

Dirty.... no doubt in my mind

"Because I'll never be able to break 4:00 in the 1500, any woman who breaks 4:00 must be dirty..."

Scorpion_runner wrote:

No damn miracle. you do a 10000m race hard, and then do rounds of 1500m, and then lead the final race from beginning to end hard,, and then have another hard lap gear? Even men can't do that.

It's quite obvious. ...not a miracle. And then run the WC in 3:51?

No pacer.

Like said even the men don't do this when it comes to distance races ..higher than 800m.

So what you're saying is you're the ultimate decider of the limits of human talent and potential right? Ever heard of an outlier? all of these super talented athletes are naturally outliers. And among them, some are just more extreme which is why only one person can be the world record holder...

Remember when Khalid Khannouchi ran 2:05 at Chicago, and how long it took for the 2:05 barrier to be broken in the men's marathon? As more people run a race and train at it, more talent gets revealed.

Always so many variable in sports, especially one track and field where so small of margins can make such a big difference. At this world champs there were so many variables that were preferable for athletes (mondo track, humidity, or rather lack thereof, cooling system, etc.) that of course times were fast. Just as has been the case as history goes on, recovery gets better, more tech/scientific advances, better coaching, etc. Hassan was running with more of a chip on her shoulder than ever before, probably more motivation, too. With the best coaching of her life, whether there be drugs or not, Al Sal is still a really good coach, almost everything was perfect for her in this race. Also worth noting that she only had to run 4:14 in her semi, and made a 56 or so last lap look easy. And that generally, the peak of distance runners normally occurs around the age of 27... she is 26. All those things have to account for something, even if she happens to be doping.

Also, Armstrong tested positive multiple times, they were just covered up. And on reanalysis of multiple of his test samples, he tested positive many more times. Just sayin'.

Absolutely doping , no doubt ok

The Chinese were involved in state sponsored doping program, in case u didn't know.

Tyler Bates wrote:

Doptastic wrote:

I didn’t think she was doping till this performance. It’s too good. After that 10k? After two rounds?

She's as filthy as any doper that's ever set foot on a track. Now you know officials are complicit in this artificial situation we've put up with for three decades, in terms of raw numbers and the performances from certain runners who lack speed. The best responders in some cases are the winners, as with the women's 1500.

Yeah..sure..whatever helps you get to sleep at night...A woman running 3:51 is doped to the gills but no one ever says a guy running 3:35 is doped. That's 16 seconds faster. The women's 800 meter record is 13 seconds slower than the men's and the women's 1500 meter record is 24 seconds slower. Why is it unfathomable for a woman to run 25 seconds slower than a man at 1500 meters? It's a huge gap and should probably be closer if anything.

Scorpion_runner wrote:

Sledge_Hammer wrote:

There's something called miracle. If you don't believe in miracle, why should you watch the sport?

Just switch it off.

No damn miracle. you do a 10000m race hard, and then do rounds of 1500m, and then lead the final race from beginning to end hard,, and then have another hard lap gear? Even men can't do that.

It's quite obvious. ...not a miracle. And then run the WC in 3:51?

No pacer.

Like said even the men don't do this when it comes to distance races ..higher than 800m.

Except the 10000 was easy as sh1t. 8500m, behind pacers, on a track, at slower than HM pace? Yea that's nothing. She ran a 95% 1500m off of 8500m of low threshold running.

3:51 is still damn fast, but it makes sense for a 14 low performer.

Now, Hassan is probably doping because she is as good as she is. Being in 14 low/3:50 shape, as a female is inherently suspect.

But...nothing amazing from a 1500m PB following 8k light tempo and a 95% three or four days before.

Sifan!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLKXu9PSNFU

I'm curious to know what would have been an acceptable "non-doping" time for her?

If you think this performance points to doping, let me know what it's acceptable for her to run.

bartholomew_maxwell wrote:

Yeah..sure..whatever helps you get to sleep at night...A woman running 3:51 is doped to the gills but no one ever says a guy running 3:35 is doped. That's 16 seconds faster. The women's 800 meter record is 13 seconds slower than the men's and the women's 1500 meter record is 24 seconds slower. Why is it unfathomable for a woman to run 25 seconds slower than a man at 1500 meters? It's a huge gap and should probably be closer if anything.

This is a new one. Women's performances on the track should never be deemed suspicious unless they are actually faster than men.

I guess it was only a matter of time here.

Official LetsRun policy has always been that it's racist to question East African doped up times, now it's also 'sexist' to question East African women's doped up times.

1234567 wrote:

The Chinese were involved in state sponsored doping program, in case u didn't know.

Doping alone isn't going to make you a world beater so please stop that excuse. Feed any woman in the world PEDs and none of them will ever come close to Siffan. Look at the biomechanics of her running. She clearly has attributes that you can't get through a pill or injection. She has one of the most fluid strides ever.

Shelby ran 3:54 so we should feel pretty good about that.

pathfinder wrote:

I'm curious to know what would have been an acceptable "non-doping" time for her?

If you think this performance points to doping, let me know what it's acceptable for her to run.

I don't think she's doping...

Everyone who is posting progressions of various athletes are missing some pretty important points.

The first is the Hassan completed this AFTER doing the 10K-1.5K double--an unheard of double. I mean has this double ever been done before at an Olympics/World Championships? And if so, has the individual dominated both events?

She ran a 3:51--so close to the WR. She did it with form issues, and she did it by looking behind her every two seconds. Then with 250 to go she turned the gas on like no one has ever seen and made the best women in the world look like JV high school runners in a heat with an all state runner who mistakenly wrote the wrong time on the entry form. It was stupid.

Here's the thing--i WANT to believe this performance was real. It was incredible! How amazing would it be for an athlete to be capable of what Hassan achieved! But the fact of the matter is that it is delusional to think so.

Coevett wrote:

bartholomew_maxwell wrote:

Yeah..sure..whatever helps you get to sleep at night...A woman running 3:51 is doped to the gills but no one ever says a guy running 3:35 is doped. That's 16 seconds faster. The women's 800 meter record is 13 seconds slower than the men's and the women's 1500 meter record is 24 seconds slower. Why is it unfathomable for a woman to run 25 seconds slower than a man at 1500 meters? It's a huge gap and should probably be closer if anything.

This is a new one. Women's performances on the track should never be deemed suspicious unless they are actually faster than men.

I guess it was only a matter of time here.

Official LetsRun policy has always been that it's racist to question East African doped up times, now it's also 'sexist' to question East African women's doped up times.

You misinterpreted my post. I'm saying it should be closer than 24 seconds slower than the men's record....

Coevett wrote:

bladerunner wrote:

Don't watch. Morons like yourself will never be satisfied unless the results are mediocre. This is only sport I'm aware where great results are spat on, not celebrated. Do us a favor and find something else to watch.

Athletics is probably the only sport I'm aware of where an athlete who was transformed from a good runner into a superhuman GOAT in her mid-twenties, by a coach who was banned for doping offences just this week, could still be celebrated when she produces another superhuman performance.

And.....this is the problem I have. I will acknowledge it's very likely that Hassan is doping. This goes without saying.

But...and maybe it's a result of the number of people popped for doping, it's a real problem for a clean phenom. Let's say Hassan is a 3:47/13:40/28:30 level talent. Or a male analog might be a 3:28/12:20/25:50 talent. Such talent is certainly capable of existing in both running and cycling. Labs have tested thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of elite athletes. Even more humans. We know what values exist for gross efficiency, and what max values exist for VO2, and what values exist for % of VO2 that can be sustained (fractional utilization).

If you look at those numbers, you get performances on par with what I have listed for males, or something around 7w/kg for male cyclists at threshold. Both values are beyond even those seen by an elite athlete (doped or not).

Again, we are using REAL human values, seen in the world before. Not hypothetical race horse O2 capacities. The reason we haven't seen that athlete yet is because generally, efficiency and VO2 tend to be inversely related. Guys with insane VO2 usually have lower efficiency and vice versa....but there is no reason to think someone can't have both.

So, going back to the times above, let's say Hassan is that talent. If she is training shitty, a little overweight, and eating poorly, she could easily be a minute back from maximum capability. If you're doing 50mpw or something, and overweight that's going to account for a ton. Suddenly, Hassan switches from that shitty training, to quality training with AlSal. Boom. She finds a minute and goes from middle of the pack diamond league to GOAT.

Of course, the odds of that narrative are easily 1000:1 at a minimum, but quite probably more like 1,000,000:1 or higher. The problem I have is...what happens if you are THAT athlete? You're basically fvcked just for being good and nobody will ever believe you.