Armstronglivs wrote:
LM wrote:
You convientely don't provide an answer to the question I posed on this page.
And yes plenty of pages on Alberto. All of which more or less confirm that Alberto almost certainly committed doping violations.
You miss the point - an XX female cannot have a hormonal profile anything like a man. Her testosterone levels cannot naturally go above around 2nml (compared to 7-29nml for males - who on average have 15 times the testosterone level of a female). Hypoandrogenic outliers may have 2-4 nml, hence the IAAF limit of 5nml. This is the whole Caster Semenya debate. She is DSD male however.
The only way an XX female can have anything approaching male levels of testosterone is if they are 46XY, like Semenya, or are doped to the gills. Take your pick.
You're still dodging my first point. Just throwing that out there. Yet to hear a satisfactory answer on how to handle that.
As for this response I did not miss the point. You just acted as if being female is somehow discrete and their are are only a few categories with defined testosterone ranges. Also many hormones besides testosterone matter. They all exist on an a analog continuum. You can have all kinds of genetic variation within an XX human yielding varying levels of testosterone. Variation leading above 2 are certainly possible due to genetic and epigenetic factors. Many other hormones can also vary as can body structures and of course talent (VO2/efficiency/fractional utilization).
All of this means we can have a wide variation. Given the decent number of women that have run near 14:11 it's unlikely they were all 1 in a billion outliers at the absolute tip of everything being maxed out.
Same for guys. We know guys like Bekele or Kipchoge or Froome from cycling are no other near optimal humans. They don't have 85-90 VO2 combined with 25% GME combined with a fractional utilization approaching 90%. An athlete like that is 10% or more beyond the best we've seen from even king dopers like Lance.
So, again, I ask....how do you know Hassan isn't that level of talent? How do you know Kipchoge isn't that level of talent? How do you know Bekele isn't that level of talent?
Yes, of course the odds are much, much greater that these are all doped.
The problem I have is that even the most insane doped performances are still well within the level of what's achievable using top human physiological values.
What happens when that person comes along with that talent and blows everyone way by 20s in the 5000?